Ongoing Coach/GM Hiring-Firing Thread

[sak22]

 

Seemed like the logical choice for them, will be curious to see the $ and term.

[sak22]

 

Interesting choice, but I guess logical in an interim basis when the worse case scenario would be climbing out of the bottom 10 in the league and losing their top draft choice, which given they are over 20 points from that it's not really a worry.  Weird the guy who had one of the most unlikely paths to becoming a hall of fame player, had one of the easiest to becoming a head coach.

[cross16]

Big name coach available. Will likely be a bidding war for his services but I imagine he'll wait as I'm sure there are teams in the playoffs that would love to talk to him. 

 

 

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Big name coach available. Will likely be a bidding war for his services but I imagine he'll wait as I'm sure there are teams in the playoffs that would love to talk to him. 

 

 

 

That's just so wrong.  Probably one of the top 2 coaches in the league.  A smart team will scoop him up, but he would work best with a team that can actually play defensive hockey.

[sak22]

42 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

That's just so wrong.  Probably one of the top 2 coaches in the league.  A smart team will scoop him up, but he would work best with a team that can actually play defensive hockey.

The Islanders weren't really a strong defensive team prior to Trotz they went from worst to first in GA.  Thought he would be given a bit more leash as this season was hard to get on the right foot, starting with 13 on the road and when they finally opened the new home had a gutted team due to covid, but Lou will always be Lou.  Out of present non-playing teams both Detroit and Philly could throw a lot of money his way, perhaps the chance to be close to home could work in Winnipeg's favor, not sure if he speaks French and would be a target for the Habs.  And the teams still playing, Florida and Dallas would be the teams I would think would be very interested if they fail.

[travel_dude]

22 minutes ago, sak22 said:

The Islanders weren't really a strong defensive team prior to Trotz they went from worst to first in GA.  Thought he would be given a bit more leash as this season was hard to get on the right foot, starting with 13 on the road and when they finally opened the new home had a gutted team due to covid, but Lou will always be Lou.  Out of present non-playing teams both Detroit and Philly could throw a lot of money his way, perhaps the chance to be close to home could work in Winnipeg's favor, not sure if he speaks French and would be a target for the Habs.  And the teams still playing, Florida and Dallas would be the teams I would think would be very interested if they fail.

 

Habs will go for MSL.  It's so obvious.

WPG would make sense, but I think they look elsewhere to fit the team they want.

Defensive is boring to them, they want goals.

[sak22]

 

Now he can go back to his true calling of making hockey fans and players uncomfortable.

[cross16]

6 minutes ago, sak22 said:

 

Now he can go back to his true calling of making hockey fans and players uncomfortable.

 

boy in less than a year? I mean i'm not surprised as I don't think the hire made sense in the first place but still weird. 

[cross16]

46 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Habs will go for MSL.  It's so obvious.

WPG would make sense, but I think they look elsewhere to fit the team they want.

Defensive is boring to them, they want goals.

 

 

I think Winnipeg makes a ton of sense but i'm not sure they would be prepared to pay him. It's a interesting connecting given how in his post season press conference Statsny drew comparison to the Flames hiring Sutter and how they turned things around. i think the Jets needs a dman or 2 but the parallels are there and a coach like Trotz could pull it off. 

 

Would expect the Flyers to make the biggest push though.  Most intriguing though to me is Vegas. I know Deboer is relative new there and I don't blame him for what happened there but the reality is Vegas wants to win, team wasn't good defensively, and they will pull moves like this if it means they can win. It checks some boxes. 

[sak22]

10 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

boy in less than a year? I mean i'm not surprised as I don't think the hire made sense in the first place but still weird. 

The easy speculation I guess is to assume it was a Melnyk hire.

[cross16]

Not a surprise unless the new GM was insistent on getting his own coach

 

 

[conundrumed]

On 5/9/2022 at 1:21 PM, cross16 said:

 

 

I think Winnipeg makes a ton of sense but i'm not sure they would be prepared to pay him. It's a interesting connecting given how in his post season press conference Statsny drew comparison to the Flames hiring Sutter and how they turned things around. i think the Jets needs a dman or 2 but the parallels are there and a coach like Trotz could pull it off. 

 

Would expect the Flyers to make the biggest push though.  Most intriguing though to me is Vegas. I know Deboer is relative new there and I don't blame him for what happened there but the reality is Vegas wants to win, team wasn't good defensively, and they will pull moves like this if it means they can win. It checks some boxes. 

My wonder is whether FLA sees Brunette as a permanent solution. He was elevated as interim, no? Then, will Quenneville and Babcock be back in the league?

It's kinda one of those things. Do you want to ruin their careers, or just teach them a lesson? I'd guess the latter, but maybe I'm wrong.

Bill Peters? He really got screwed over imo. Akim Aliu is hardly a model citizen/great hockey player.

How many times do you ask a guy to turn his music down before losing your mind?.

[sak22]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

My wonder is whether FLA sees Brunette as a permanent solution. He was elevated as interim, no? Then, will Quenneville and Babcock be back in the league?

It's kinda one of those things. Do you want to ruin their careers, or just teach them a lesson? I'd guess the latter, but maybe I'm wrong.

Bill Peters? He really got screwed over imo. Akim Aliu is hardly a model citizen/great hockey player.

How many times do you ask a guy to turn his music down before losing your mind?.

Quenneville and Peters I think are 0% chance of being back ever.  Their mistakes are too significant to overlook, like it or not they are going down in NHL history as the racist and an enabler of sexual assault  

 

I can do it pretty easily without using racist words.

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Quenneville and Peters I think are 0% chance of being back ever.  Their mistakes are too significant to overlook, like it or not they are going down in NHL history as the racist and an enabler of sexual assault  

 

I can do it pretty easily without using racist words.

 

Unfortunately, BP never really defended or disputed his actions.  And they stemmed from years prior, so how much heat of the moment was taken as being overall a racist?  I don't agree with labelling music in any way like that.  I may not like the music and think there is a genre that totally denigrates women and promotes other things that are really bad.  But, like I said, there is no context to the remarks.  I don't believe that either side is squeaky clean.  But we will never know.

    

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

Not a surprise unless the new GM was insistent on getting his own coach

 

 

 

For a team that missed the playoffs, the expectations are pretty high in Vancouver next season with Boudreau coming back.  Playoffs for sures and I think fans expect them to challenge for the division next season.

 

The Canucks have the core pieces in place.  Two #1 Centers (Miller/Pettersson).  #1 stud D (Hughes).  #1 stud G (Demko).  They are just missing the supporting cast and depth players.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

My wonder is whether FLA sees Brunette as a permanent solution. He was elevated as interim, no? Then, will Quenneville and Babcock be back in the league?

It's kinda one of those things. Do you want to ruin their careers, or just teach them a lesson? I'd guess the latter, but maybe I'm wrong.

Bill Peters? He really got screwed over imo. Akim Aliu is hardly a model citizen/great hockey player.

How many times do you ask a guy to turn his music down before losing your mind?.

 

FLA didn't really miss a beat after Quenneville left so you've got to think Brunette will be kept full time.  Maybe it depends if they can get out of the first round.

 

But I think Quenneville, Babcock, and Peters will never coach again in the NHL.  Too much negative PR to deal with.  Teams don't want to go there.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

My wonder is whether FLA sees Brunette as a permanent solution. He was elevated as interim, no?

 

He was. Could be based on his playoff success but i'd be surprised if they didn't stick with him. I would be even more shocked if they went with Trotz. Trotz's hockey is a 180 reversal from how the Panthers play. 

[Addicted]

22 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Unfortunately, BP never really defended or disputed his actions.  And they stemmed from years prior, so how much heat of the moment was taken as being overall a racist?  I don't agree with labelling music in any way like that.  I may not like the music and think there is a genre that totally denigrates women and promotes other things that are really bad.  But, like I said, there is no context to the remarks.  I don't believe that either side is squeaky clean.  But we will never know.

    

Especially when the music in question is full of the same word on repeat, that BP used once.  Again we'll never know how it all went down, but I for one am getting very tired of the victim card in todays society.  The old pendulum is swinging to far again.....there has to be a middle ground somewhere that has accountability on both sides.

[The_People1]

1 minute ago, Addicted said:

Especially when the music in question is full of the same word on repeat, that BP used once.  Again we'll never know how it all went down, but I for one am getting very tired of the victim card in todays society.  The old pendulum is swinging to far again.....there has to be a middle ground somewhere that has accountability on both sides.

 

Agreed especially when these incidents happened over a decade ago in a different era and culture.  People change over time and learn from mistakes.

[sak22]

3 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Agreed especially when these incidents happened over a decade ago in a different era and culture.  People change over time and learn from mistakes.

2009 wasn't that different.  But lets not get back to 2019, BP was trending down and things are looking good.  Can we live with things worked out well for us, or do we need to continue to fight for a white man's freedom to use the n word directed to a black man.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Unfortunately, BP never really defended or disputed his actions.  And they stemmed from years prior, so how much heat of the moment was taken as being overall a racist?  I don't agree with labelling music in any way like that.  I may not like the music and think there is a genre that totally denigrates women and promotes other things that are really bad.  But, like I said, there is no context to the remarks.  I don't believe that either side is squeaky clean.  But we will never know.

    

this is something where there needs to be some sort of restorative Justice. It’s good to call people out on being racist and acting racist, fine. But at the same time, let’s sit Aliu and Peters down and have Aliu explain to peters why it was such a hard thing for him. Maybe a family life story in their and all of the racism that Aliu had to face.
 

While it is tough, but people need to understand that there are systemic racisms out there that are piling on and that it is hard. If it is built up over the years, Aliu is going to eventually react or underperform or be angry or sad but ultimately hurt.
 

I get that feelings to some are wishy washy. But ultimately, feeling one way or another has life. When it is hate it can turn into violence. Like a friend’s ex gets jumped in the middle of Main Street and King Edward in Vancouver for just being Asian. They didn’t know the person, but got the Satoshi Nakamoto kicked out of them at like 3pm and no one stopped a group of people. That is how words can translate to things being ok to perform hate like that. 
 

What Peters said or did might not be as harsh, but it can add to that kind of violence to be okayed by others. 
 

but I think if others understand or are able to get into each other’s shoes  in some way, there can be change. 
 

Can Peters attend true antiracist seminars to help in that healing? Or maybe even healing in himself. Could hate be a disease? Maybe it needs healing? Maybe this isn’t the thread to address the issues.
 

I just wanted to say that there does need to be education around these issues. I grew up in the 70’s/80’s/early 90’s. We were throwing insults at each other All the time. I later learnt a lot of that was homophobic insults and that they hurt others. I stopped using them, but my brother would call me everything under the sun! 
 

I do think people can change. But they need to do the work. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

2009 wasn't that different.  But lets not get back to 2019, BP was trending down and things are looking good.  Can we live with things worked out well for us, or do we need to continue to fight for a white man's freedom to use the n word directed to a black man.

 

The only context we know is that Peters walked into the room and shouted for the "N-music" to stop.  For all we know the music was dropping N-words non-stop and Peters had enough of it because he doesn't like it... he may have just used the wrong words to ask the music be stopped.  Peters doesn't even recall the incident to even deny it.  It was all Aliu's words.  Anyways, there may have been a generational gap in the sensitive used of the N-word and that's basically my point.  Gramps just didn't understand the times.

 

Cultural standards are being warped so fast these days, nobody can catch up.  If you are black but you voted for Trump then you are racist.  If you are Russian then it's okay to discriminate against you.  We are trending for the worse in my opinion and so, it doesn't look good for recourse when it comes to Peters, Babcock, and Quinneville.  Eventually in 10 years or so, if your coaching staff isn't at least half people of colour and women, then your organization is nazis.

 

[Heartbreaker]

28 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

this is something where there needs to be some sort of restorative Justice. It’s good to call people out on being racist and acting racist, fine. But at the same time, let’s sit Aliu and Peters down and have Aliu explain to peters why it was such a hard thing for him. Maybe a family life story in their and all of the racism that Aliu had to face.
 

While it is tough, but people need to understand that there are systemic racisms out there that are piling on and that it is hard. If it is built up over the years, Aliu is going to eventually react or underperform or be angry or sad but ultimately hurt.
 

I get that feelings to some are wishy washy. But ultimately, feeling one way or another has life. When it is hate it can turn into violence. Like a friend’s ex gets jumped in the middle of Main Street and King Edward in Vancouver for just being Asian. They didn’t know the person, but got the Satoshi Nakamoto kicked out of them at like 3pm and no one stopped a group of people. That is how words can translate to things being ok to perform hate like that. 
 

What Peters said or did might not be as harsh, but it can add to that kind of violence to be okayed by others. 
 

but I think if others understand or are able to get into each other’s shoes  in some way, there can be change. 
 

Can Peters attend true antiracist seminars to help in that healing? Or maybe even healing in himself. Could hate be a disease? Maybe it needs healing? Maybe this isn’t the thread to address the issues.
 

I just wanted to say that there does need to be education around these issues. I grew up in the 70’s/80’s/early 90’s. We were throwing insults at each other All the time. I later learnt a lot of that was homophobic insults and that they hurt others. I stopped using them, but my brother would call me everything under the sun! 
 

I do think people can change. But they need to do the work. 

 

This is a great post, Rob, and I sincerely appreciate your perspective on this. You and I have had a few conversations about this stuff in real life, and I've always been thankful to have heard your perspective, and have been inspired by your thoughtfulness, and your nuance on these matters.

With regard to Akim Aliu, I often find myself wondering if the impact on him, and on his life has been exaggerated because we are a society that purports to be so intolerant of racism (as we should be!). I realize it sounds really bad to even voice that, and I certainly don't mean to demean his experience in any way, as I recognize that I could be very wrong - but I believe that the trauma suffered by someone like Sheldon Kennedy could derail a career, or even a life - but with Aliu I wonder if it has more to do with his ability as a hockey player. That is, not to take away from his experience, or the fact that Bill Peters was being a prick, and there's not place for that in hockey or anywhere else, but I don't buy that Aliu didn't make it in the NHL because Bill Peters is a jerkoff.

Did I ever tell you about my brother's ex? She had nothing but really bad things to say about Jarome Iginla - yeah, that Jarome Iginla - because her cousin, Jordin Tootoo, said that he's racist. Apparently, in a scrum on the ice, Jarome called him a pre-2021 Edmonton Elk. I don't think that racism derailed either of those players, just as it didn't, or hasn't derailed Evander Kane, Reggie Leach, Grant Fuhr, Carey Price, George Armstrong, Wayne Simmonds, Fred Brathwaite, or Jonathan Cheechoo. The list goes on, and of course, every one of these players endured undue prejudice at some level.

One of the main criticisms that I have with hockey is that it really is a sport for the well-to-do, and I think that is reflected in its demographics. When I was coaching in North Van, I thought long and hard about how we could make the game more accessible, and I still think about that a lot, but it's a long game. I think that a big part of why youth are drawn to basketball is because you only need a ball and a net, and everyone can play. I could be very wrong about this as well - but I suspect that there is a lot less racism exhibited in sports like basketball and football. I am hopeful that as hockey becomes more accessible to a wider demographic, and as our attitudes change, examples of this kind of thing will become more and more rare.

As I said, though, it really is a long game. Despite what everyone thinks of the man, I think that Gary Bettman has been really good for hockey in this space. This is not an example that can be cited for racism, but did you know that there was a young boy at that game in Phoenix when Alexander Ovechkin scored that absolutely ridiculous goal from his back? That kid was named Auston Matthews, and that was the moment that he realized that he needed to be a hockey player. The league is better for having him. I wonder if there are any teenagers in Nashville that were inspired by PK Subban... or if there will be any kids in LA that will be moved by that up and coming center, Quinton Byfield. Representation, visibility, and accessibility are going to be huge, and I'm really looking forward to where this goes in the future.

But also, to be clear, eff Bill Peters, and eff every racist hockey coach, parent, fan, and player. Ain't nobody got time for that.

Love.

 

[sak22]

22 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

The only context we know is that Peters walked into the room and shouted for the "N-music" to stop.  For all we know the music was dropping N-words non-stop and Peters had enough of it because he doesn't like it... he may have just used the wrong words to ask the music be stopped.  Peters doesn't even recall the incident to even deny it.  It was all Aliu's words.  Anyways, there may have been a generational gap in the sensitive used of the N-word and that's basically my point.  Gramps just didn't understand the times.

 

Cultural standards are being warped so fast these days, nobody can catch up.  If you are black but you voted for Trump then you are racist.  If you are Russian then it's okay to discriminate against you.  We are trending for the worse in my opinion and so, it doesn't look good for recourse when it comes to Peters, Babcock, and Quinneville.  Eventually in 10 years or so, if your coaching staff isn't at least half people of colour and women, then your organization is nazis.

 

 

Plenty of white men can't coach or manage but get extra opportunities to fail.  Would it be an issue having minorities or women coaching if they were capable of doing so?  As someone raising a biracial daughter, I would like to see improvements for how society is, I think its cool she can look to the Flames who hired someone like her on the coaching staff and strive to do that if she wanted to.  

[robrob74]

52 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

This is a great post, Rob, and I sincerely appreciate your perspective on this. You and I have had a few conversations about this stuff in real life, and I've always been thankful to have heard your perspective, and have been inspired by your thoughtfulness, and your nuance on these matters.

With regard to Akim Aliu, I often find myself wondering if the impact on him, and on his life has been exaggerated because we are a society that purports to be so intolerant of racism (as we should be!). I realize it sounds really bad to even voice that, and I certainly don't mean to demean his experience in any way, as I recognize that I could be very wrong - but I believe that the trauma suffered by someone like Sheldon Kennedy could derail a career, or even a life - but with Aliu I wonder if it has more to do with his ability as a hockey player. That is, not to take away from his experience, or the fact that Bill Peters was being a prick, and there's not place for that in hockey or anywhere else, but I don't buy that Aliu didn't make it in the NHL because Bill Peters is a jerkoff.

Did I ever tell you about my brother's ex? She had nothing but really bad things to say about Jarome Iginla - yeah, that Jarome Iginla - because her cousin, Jordin Tootoo, said that he's racist. Apparently, in a scrum on the ice, Jarome called him a pre-2021 Edmonton Elk. I don't think that racism derailed either of those players, just as it didn't, or hasn't derailed Evander Kane, Reggie Leach, Grant Fuhr, Carey Price, George Armstrong, Wayne Simmonds, Fred Brathwaite, or Jonathan Cheechoo. The list goes on, and of course, every one of these players endured undue prejudice at some level.

One of the main criticisms that I have with hockey is that it really is a sport for the well-to-do, and I think that is reflected in its demographics. When I was coaching in North Van, I thought long and hard about how we could make the game more accessible, and I still think about that a lot, but it's a long game. I think that a big part of why youth are drawn to basketball is because you only need a ball and a net, and everyone can play. I could be very wrong about this as well - but I suspect that there is a lot less racism exhibited in sports like basketball and football. I am hopeful that as hockey becomes more accessible to a wider demographic, and as our attitudes change, examples of this kind of thing will become more and more rare.

As I said, though, it really is a long game. Despite what everyone thinks of the man, I think that Gary Bettman has been really good for hockey in this space. This is not an example that can be cited for racism, but did you know that there was a young boy at that game in Phoenix when Alexander Ovechkin scored that absolutely ridiculous goal from his back? That kid was named Auston Matthews, and that was the moment that he realized that he needed to be a hockey player. The league is better for having him. I wonder if there are any teenagers in Nashville that were inspired by PK Subban... or if there will be any kids in LA that will be moved by that up and coming center, Quinton Byfield. Representation, visibility, and accessibility are going to be huge, and I'm really looking forward to where this goes in the future.

But also, to be clear, eff Bill Peters, and eff every racist hockey coach, parent, fan, and player. Ain't nobody got time for that.

Love.

 

i think it really depends on the person because everyone responds differently. The amount that you’re listing could be a small sample of elite players that got through it, whereas we won’t know what or how many suffered before they got to that level. 
 

and when I think of this, does Morgan Freeman saying that he doesn’t believe that racism exists mean that racism doesn’t exist? There are varying degrees to which people experience. I don’t think it’s an all in one, because others got through it that others couldn’t. To me, it sounded like Aliu didn’t only get it from Peters, but all up the whole system to getting in trouble for standing up for himself when being hazed. And hevwas the villain in it. 
 

i wouldn’t know his exact story or what his experience was as a kid and how coaches would have used or not used him in certain situations due to racial bias, so I can’t say how much to that, just that in every situation there is bias. 
 

in education all teachers come with their bias and sometimes it’s even sibling to sibling…. Just an example. 
 

but how he handles it will be different from others. 
 

like my colleague  was abused due to residential school. Other colleagues were too. I witnessed trauma due to that too. How we all got through it was different for each of us. We all ended up in the same place working in education, but I wanted to be dead (angry at existing) and hating the things I experienced. 
 

some are succeed at all costs while others are shut down and survive as best as you can. And that’s just it, how they survive. 
 

i get racism isn’t the abuse that happened to Kennedy and Theo. Even in their situations they handled it differently. Who knows if Kennedy would have been better? And we wouldn’t want to compare them. 
 

but like I said, I think this is a situation where community healing can help. Can Peters learn from it and maybe a part of it is anger issues? I wasn’t in the room for context. But I just think understanding the other is key? 
 

watch Naruto! lol