flames-fan-in-jets-land Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 1 minute ago, robrob74 said: Is it enough? Is it enough to save his career or job with Calgary? Sadly no. By sadly I mean that regardless of if Peters was guilty or even if it was a total fabrication with a recanting from Aliu the Court of public opinion had made it's decision. Right or wrong when it comes to non-criminal (and sometimes criminal) matters especially for people in the public eye, all it takes is one misstep to end a career. Unless you're paintbrushing white privileged hockey players then it all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 Just now, phoenix66 said: except he says he came out and addressed the room, thats the 1st ive seen that .. Aliu said it was never mentioned again .... I think that is where the investigation goes. And if he did address it, was Aliu in the room when he did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Tribal Chief Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 Brian Burke Said his legal Council would of told him not to include aliu in that letter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said: Sadly no. By sadly I mean that regardless of if Peters was guilty or even if it was a total fabrication with a recanting from Aliu the Court of public opinion had made it's decision. Right or wrong when it comes to non-criminal (and sometimes criminal) matters especially for people in the public eye, all it takes is one misstep to end a career. Unless you're paintbrushing white privileged hockey players then it all good. I don't understand that comment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Cowtownguy said: Yeah, we got the answer. You know, if this is not handled with strict adherence to due process, Peters could come back and launch a seriously expensive suit. To his expected salary, mix in whatever damage is done to his reputation. I suspect that Treliving does not have any NHL due process rules to follow (i.e. they still do not have a policy). I agree with this and it seems to be hinted but most covering this there is really no precedent for this so no one really knows how to handle it. Sounds to me like lawyers on all sides (Flames,NHL, and Peters) are all working this over diligently. that letter feels like part of the process. It’s worded as a legal tool not an apology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 10 minutes ago, cross16 said: I agree with this and it seems to be hinted but most covering this there is really no precedent for this so no one really knows how to handle it. Sounds to me like lawyers on all sides (Flames,NHL, and Peters) are all working this over diligently. that letter feels like part of the process. It’s worded as a legal tool not an apology. I feel the same way. His only action is to show that he is cooperating with the Flames and the NHL and that he shows remorse. The only thing I can think of is, Aliu said that if he apologized he wouldn't have felt it the way he has felt it since. I think this could set precedent to have policy and training within the NHL and pro sports. Although, it happened with the Cincinnati Reds (I think)? Where their GM or owner was outwardly racist. Although I guess that is a different era. The thing about it all is, Aliu tried to stand up for his hazing incident and was the one that was victimized by it. Slowly these things are being broken down, but there is still a ways to go, as there is a sense of toxic masculinity in hockey and in sport that needs to be addressed. I think it's also why Babcock was fired. I understand that it is more about racism, in this case, but the brute he has shown in the dressing room and on the bench stems from toxic culture that is now being broken down... I know that I am going to get backlash for my comments... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 54 minutes ago, cross16 said: See, by Aliu's account of the incident, Peters dropped N-bombs, walked away, and pretended like nothing ever happened. In this letter, Peters said he returned to the dressing room and apologized for his language. That's a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 21 minutes ago, robrob74 said: The thing about it all is, Aliu tried to stand up for his hazing incident and was the one that was victimized by it. Slowly these things are being broken down, but there is still a ways to go, as there is a sense of toxic masculinity in hockey and in sport that needs to be addressed. I think it's also why Babcock was fired. I understand that it is more about racism, in this case, but the brute he has shown in the dressing room and on the bench stems from toxic culture that is now being broken down... Toxic masculinity? How about systematic castration? Maybe they need to have no-hit MMA fighting. Or flag NFL football. Not lashing out at you RobROb, just a general comment about PC culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, travel_dude said: Toxic masculinity? How about systematic castration? Maybe they need to have no-hit MMA fighting. Or flag NFL football. EDITED - 😐 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 34 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: except he says he came out and addressed the room, thats the 1st ive seen that .. Aliu said it was never mentioned again .... It Peters is telling the truth, that he came back into the room to apologize, then that changes a lot for me. Not because Aliu should have accepted the apology but because Aliu painted a much more sinister picture. Now the question goes back to Aliu, why didn't he mention Peters went back to make an apology? Even if it was half hearted and lacked sincerity, at least mention it. Right? Now it sounds more like Aliu is smearing and holding grudges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 1 minute ago, cross16 said: I agree with this and it seems to be hinted but most covering this there is really no precedent for this so no one really knows how to handle it. Sounds to me like lawyers on all sides (Flames,NHL, and Peters) are all working this over diligently. that letter feels like part of the process. It’s worded as a legal tool not an apology. It is obvious that Treliving is preaching "patience" for a reason. It is also obvious that Peters is saying that he acknowledges the profanity, apologized, and that the investigation is ongoing (i.e. I explained the situation and then they reacted). Legal negotiations have already begun. What I find fascinating is, how broad might be culpability in such a case? The Flames own the contract, but they just own the franchise. Perhaps legal culpability takes time to ascertain when you have not bothered to think this stuff in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP5029 Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 Alui was a crap player and it’s just sample and mirrors deflection so he can avoid taking responsibility for being a lazy junk player so...make a 1/2 truth claim and he can now say my career sucked because so that incident...reality is he sucked and was a lazy player... all of this is lib-tard crybaby, privileged wining...put a real uniform on look down the barrel of a gun under fire then you can earn the right to cry...playing a game you should have enough mental toughness to handle that, clearly some of these players are not, and that is sad...next they will be out on stress leave cause of what I’m saying here...dear god grow up life is not all silver spoons and roses...there is some dirt and yes Satoshi Nakamoto in life, deal with it! now having said all this, had Peters called him that..ok I’ll accept that’s not on and he should be tared and feathered but in this case Alui is just another junk player that could’ve handle a little pressure which is what he’s not playing now, grow up and move on, accept the fact you were not good enough and stop trying to use a child tactic to not accept accountability. anyone with kids should be able to see this 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, robrob74 said: You clearly don't understand what that is. Depends what you mean by it. Homophobic? Bullying? Etc... It's a pretty wide sweeping term to use for a certain type of behaviour. I have a problem with using broad terms when talking about an issue because it's used to categorize something with other behaviours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, The_People1 said: It Peters is telling the truth, that he came back into the room to apologize, then that changes a lot for me. Not because Aliu should have accepted the apology but because Aliu painted a much more sinister picture. Now the question goes back to Aliu, why didn't he mention Peters went back to make an apology? Even if it was half hearted and lacked sincerity, at least mention it. Right? Now it sounds more like Aliu is smearing and holding grudges. Agreed on the basis of these assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 Worth pointing out that the teammates of Aliu’s who came forward did not support the idea that Peters “immediately” apologized. If at all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, MP5029 said: Alui was a crap player and it’s just sample and mirrors deflection so he can avoid taking responsibility for being a lazy junk player so...make a 1/2 truth claim and he can now say my career sucked because so that incident...reality is he sucked and was a lazy player... all of this is lib-tard crybaby, privileged wining...put a real uniform on look down the barrel of a gun under fire then you can earn the right to cry...playing a game you should have enough mental toughness to handle that, clearly some of these players are not, and that is sad...next they will be out on stress leave cause of what I’m saying here...dear god grow up life is not all silver spoons and roses...there is some dirt and yes Satoshi Nakamoto in life, deal with it! now having said all this, had Peters called him that..ok I’ll accept that’s not on and he should be tared and feathered but in this case Alui is just another junk player that could’ve handle a little pressure which is what he’s not playing now, grow up and move on, accept the fact you were not good enough and stop trying to use a child tactic to not accept accountability. anyone with kids should be able to see this 🙄 That was the way things were back in the day. I had coaches smack me the odd time, profanity was common, bag skates, and keep your mouth shut etc.. If true, Peters' alleged behaviour is not really shocking to me, but it is still wrong. Things have simply changed and become more civil and that is a positive development. This is not because Millennials or Gen Z are weak and wimpy, they just do not buy into this. Heck, Paul Henderson was critical of this behaviour. Your post screams "OK Boomer" and I am 51. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, cross16 said: Worth pointing out that the teammates of Aliu’s who came forward also said that Peters did not apologize. Only addressed Aliu after the tram captain went to Peters about it. The two who confirmed his allegations? Why not just ask Hannifin or Ryan? 😮 The silence from some players is deafening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 2 hours ago, phoenix66 said: any body who was dreaming of a Sutter return .. apparently its his turn now ,,what is it with kicking players in the back? that must be a thing ... #metoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 14 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said: The two who confirmed his allegations? Why not just ask Hannifin or Ryan? 😮 The silence from some players is deafening. Well, Ryan, Lindholm, and Hanifin wasn't a part of Aliu's incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP5029 Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 15 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said: That was the way things were back in the day. I had coaches smack me the odd time, profanity was common, bag skates, and keep your mouth shut etc.. If true, Peters' alleged behaviour is not really shocking to me, but it is still wrong. Things have simply changed and become more civil and that is a positive development. This is not because Millennials or Gen Z are weak and wimpy, they just do not buy into this. Heck, Paul Henderson was critical of this behaviour. Your post screams "OK Boomer" and I am 51. well here is the thing look at how our team plays...entitled and defeated...this boo-hoo stuff is weak and it shows, serious what team is Alui playing on? How many Pts has he This season? None and none, He’s weak. all this is, is exactly what I said earlier...and again I’d not want him in my fire team he would be a liability to curl up which Is what he did with his career...the best thing he should have and could have done was work his Hash Rate of and make Peters eat those words...he didn’t cUse he didn’t have it...ironically the “gangster N word as Peters sad...and to be clear not called Alui, are just as weak and spitting that word out all the time in that music...seriously why the hell are even talking about this foolishness...Genz and Millennials are extremely weak, lazy and entitled.... now all that said, Peters may have “demeaned” the inherent demeaning music (the music its self is with N this and that through out it) but seriously so what..it wasn’t the person and that’s what’s important here...and like I said had it been the actual player then yes absolutely tar and feather Peters then but for this? Get real! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmac70 Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 Law suit 101. As mentioned earlier isolated incident not directed at the player, with an apoligy.. Plot get better. There is no question BP is done, however the Flames can not do it, it will come from the league. Calgary will be instructed by the NHL to remove BP under a policy they have, can not see a contract being written with a termnation clause that reflects behsviour from previous positions, however the league will have the ability. Back to the aligation at hand... Akim he thinks he had it bad before just wait, BP lawyers are going to take him to the cleaners. Defamation suits are extremly difficult to prove cause you require proof of damages and monetary losses caused by the individual,this is text book definition in favour of Peters. I am not advoacting the use of verbage by Peters, to me all along it seemed to apear as an isolated incident now with an apology, which should have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 13 minutes ago, MP5029 said: now all that said, Peters may have “demeaned” the inherent demeaning music (the music its self is with N this and that through out it) but seriously so what..it wasn’t the person and that’s what’s important here...and like I said had it been the actual player then yes absolutely tar and feather Peters then but for this? Get real! Lol so what? Can't be serious. You set the time machine to the wrong year bro. It's not 1989. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted November 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 1 hour ago, cross16 said: Worth pointing out that the teammates of Aliu’s who came forward did not support the idea that Peters “immediately” apologized. If at all.... i think the team captain is the key .. both sides state the team captain went and talked to him... only Peters states he came out and apologized to the room last i heard the captain wont speak publicly but will "cooperate fully with any investigation" Aliu says he ripped him the room.. then called him in the office and ripped him again .. later the captain spoke to him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sak22 Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 2 hours ago, The_People1 said: It Peters is telling the truth, that he came back into the room to apologize, then that changes a lot for me. Not because Aliu should have accepted the apology but because Aliu painted a much more sinister picture. Now the question goes back to Aliu, why didn't he mention Peters went back to make an apology? Even if it was half hearted and lacked sincerity, at least mention it. Right? Now it sounds more like Aliu is smearing and holding grudges. His words do nothing at this time without backup. His character as a coach was put into question by one player, other instances were brought up by others and verified by a former assistant coach. Given the fact it took 2 days from the initial tweet to this tells me that this was one lawyered up explanation to save face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC923 Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 1 hour ago, tmac70 said: Law suit 101. As mentioned earlier isolated incident not directed at the player, with an apoligy.. Plot get better. There is no question BP is done, however the Flames can not do it, it will come from the league. Calgary will be instructed by the NHL to remove BP under a policy they have, can not see a contract being written with a termnation clause that reflects behsviour from previous positions, however the league will have the ability. Back to the aligation at hand... Akim he thinks he had it bad before just wait, BP lawyers are going to take him to the cleaners. Defamation suits are extremly difficult to prove cause you require proof of damages and monetary losses caused by the individual,this is text book definition in favour of Peters. I am not advoacting the use of verbage by Peters, to me all along it seemed to apear as an isolated incident now with an apology, which should have happened. Defamation is, as you say, hard to prove. But unless Aliu’s lying, and no one is suggesting he is, I really don’t see how there is a case at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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