Goaltending

[travel_dude]

9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Are you really asking this question?

 

Just because the answer is obvious, does not mean the goalie coach and BP agree.

Things have changed a bit since the LA game, but there's a chance that Smith plays one of the the next two games.

Personally, I'm not convinced we are close to having Smith ready to go again.

 

Next 5 games:

Nov. 23 - @Vegas

Nov. 25 - @ARI

Nov. 28 - DAL

Nov. 30 - LA

Dec. 2 - @CHI

 

Any of those games scream Smith's name?  ARI may be too soon to go back to him, but it makes a bit of sense.   

[cross16]

I think you need to get Smith a game here. Don't let him sit that long and with 2 games on the road I think it's also a good opportunity because Smith has actually been decent on the road. 

 

While I get most want to see Rittich against Vegas, I can also see the rationale for giving Smith that game. If you play Rittich against Vegas he then sits for 5 days which could be good or a negative depending on your perspective. 

 

So I think Smith gets 1 of the 2 games and IMO which game he gets isn't terribly relevant. I can get behind either plan. Rittich against Vegas and Smith against Arizona would seem to be the preferred route, but like I said I don't mind the other one either. 

[cccsberg]

53 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Just because the answer is obvious, does not mean the goalie coach and BP agree.

Things have changed a bit since the LA game, but there's a chance that Smith plays one of the the next two games.

Personally, I'm not convinced we are close to having Smith ready to go again.

 

Next 5 games:

Nov. 23 - @Vegas

Nov. 25 - @ARI

Nov. 28 - DAL

Nov. 30 - LA

Dec. 2 - @CHI

 

Any of those games scream Smith's name?  ARI may be too soon to go back to him, but it makes a bit of sense.   

Against his old team, Arizona sounds about right.  See if he can get back to playing well.  If not, back to Rittich for 4-5 games.  Hey, even IF we accept and put Rittich into a "starters" role, you don't want to overplay him.  Whoever is starting, it needs to be a 3:1 or 4:1 split, at worse to keep them both fresh.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cccsberg said:

Against his old team, Arizona sounds about right.  See if he can get back to playing well.  If not, back to Rittich for 4-5 games.  Hey, even IF we accept and put Rittich into a "starters" role, you don't want to overplay him.  Whoever is starting, it needs to be a 3:1 or 4:1 split, at worse to keep them both fresh.

 

This is what I was thinking.  I just don't know if the plan fits that schedule right now.  They might want him to sit until Rittich cools off (mistake perhaps) or he shows another level at practices.  Or some other proof or idea.

 

If they go Rittich in Vegas (right call) and Smith in ARI, and both manage to get wins, the picture is still too vague.  Right back to Smith?  That hasn't worked yet this season.  Alternate goalies with the majority going to Rittich?  Makes sense based on outcome.  I don't want to overthink this, but I hope there is a plan and some way to see if it's working.

 

 

 

 

[Khrox]

Smith against Ari I could see. I also want Smith against LA, they've just been bad this year and I could see him having a good game there (which could help fix his confidence issues).

[travel_dude]

56 minutes ago, Khrox said:

Smith against Ari I could see. I also want Smith against LA, they've just been bad this year and I could see him having a good game there (which could help fix his confidence issues).

 

If you go every other game to Smith, then you have to believe he has his game back.

He wins in ARI, then yes LA makes some sense.  Not because they are an "easy" team.

He loses in ARI, then where are you?  Go back to him in LA?

 

One thing to keep in mind.  Smith playing at home after strugging left a bad taste in fans' mouths.

3-3-1 at home

2-4-0 on road

 

Anyway, I will let this drop for now.  Just thinking about it.

 

[MAC331]

12 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

If you go every other game to Smith, then you have to believe he has his game back.

He wins in ARI, then yes LA makes some sense.  Not because they are an "easy" team.

He loses in ARI, then where are you?  Go back to him in LA?

 

One thing to keep in mind.  Smith playing at home after strugging left a bad taste in fans' mouths.

3-3-1 at home

2-4-0 on road

 

Anyway, I will let this drop for now.  Just thinking about it.

 

Did you happen to watch Carey Price play last night or even the highlights ? He is going through what Smith is ad as veterans they have to play their way out of whatever is the problem. Putting him on ice isn't the answer, every other game may or may not be the answer so I think BP has to develop a feel for when best to use both guys.

[travel_dude]

30 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Did you happen to watch Carey Price play last night or even the highlights ? He is going through what Smith is ad as veterans they have to play their way out of whatever is the problem. Putting him on ice isn't the answer, every other game may or may not be the answer so I think BP has to develop a feel for when best to use both guys.

 

I get what Price is, as many elite tenders go through that from time to time.

The two are not alike other than both struggling.

One is elite.

The other was a good-to-better goalie that may be at or near the end of a long career.

 

There's no magic pill or right answer as to see when he is ready to win.

The only way to know he's there for sure is when he plays that way.

 

I heard the comments from BP about his readiness, but then seen a different player than described.  BP may get to the point that he knows who's best to use, but he's not there yet.  Can't let him rot.  Can't start him too soon and ruin whatever he's built up.  Tough call.  Only sure thing is that Rittich is playing like there's no tomorrow.  Don't really want to mess with that.

[MAC331]

6 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I get what Price is, as many elite tenders go through that from time to time.

The two are not alike other than both struggling.

One is elite.

The other was a good-to-better goalie that may be at or near the end of a long career.

 

There's no magic pill or right answer as to see when he is ready to win.

The only way to know he's there for sure is when he plays that way.

 

I heard the comments from BP about his readiness, but then seen a different player than described.  BP may get to the point that he knows who's best to use, but he's not there yet.  Can't let him rot.  Can't start him too soon and ruin whatever he's built up.  Tough call.  Only sure thing is that Rittich is playing like there's no tomorrow.  Don't really want to mess with that.

The two are very much alike regardless of "status". Smith will have to play is way out of this funk, what the formula will be is up to the coach. Also regardless of the attitude on here about Sigalet listening to Burke the other day they value what he does there and recommends.

[robrob74]

7 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Just because the answer is obvious, does not mean the goalie coach and BP agree.

Things have changed a bit since the LA game, but there's a chance that Smith plays one of the the next two games.

Personally, I'm not convinced we are close to having Smith ready to go again.

 

Next 5 games:

Nov. 23 - @Vegas

Nov. 25 - @ARI

Nov. 28 - DAL

Nov. 30 - LA

Dec. 2 - @CHI

 

Any of those games scream Smith's name?  ARI may be too soon to go back to him, but it makes a bit of sense.   

 

It is obvious we should start Rittich. While keeping in mind Rittich may not get starter work loads for the entire season, so might start smith to get him in for a feel and then go right back to Rittich. If that’s the plan, then maybe give one more to Rittich.

 

one pattern our goalies have had for about 4 years is, we would ride them until they lose. But in that, their numbers would go from really good to bad until they lost. It may not be the same, but Rittich’s numbers have dropped each game. That’s circumstantial. But I would go smith just to avoid a huge drop and a blowout. Maybe Rittich plays great again though, and then they planned on starting smith in Arizona anyway.

 

Edit in: I think Wills or Lubardius said that pucks were still squeaking in in practice, so probably best to go with the known. 

[Khrox]

9 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

If you go every other game to Smith, then you have to believe he has his game back.

He wins in ARI, then yes LA makes some sense.  Not because they are an "easy" team.

He loses in ARI, then where are you?  Go back to him in LA?

 

One thing to keep in mind.  Smith playing at home after strugging left a bad taste in fans' mouths.

3-3-1 at home

2-4-0 on road

 

Anyway, I will let this drop for now.  Just thinking about it.

 

Main reason I suggested LA as the second game was not because of the whole "Every other game" thing, but LA has been the worst team in the league so far at scoring goals (43 goals in 21 games so far, and even doing Goals For/per game, they are still dead last). To top it off, their team has looked awful on the eye test when I've seen them (I catch a bit of most games while at work, so I see 5 minutes or more of almost every game and western conference games it tends to be higher as they are on later), their advanced stats have been garbage, and just stat-watching they look like trash. It's the closest thing to a "gimme" game that we can get Smith. Short of absolutely wetting the bed against Ari, that would still be a good chance to see him, unless you feel like Rittich could use an easier game and playing him 4 of our next 5 games (he's already played our last 3 games as well, so you'd be playing him 7 out of 8 games there if you give Smith Arizona.)

Besides, the backup has to play at some point. We criticize every coach when they let the starter play so many games in a row, or in a shorter period, and we are currently running that risk with Rittich. He's still playing fairly good (his stats are dropping a bit, but he's a top 5 goaltender so far at this point of the season)

[cross16]

 

[travel_dude]

26 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

 

Wise choice, IMHO.  If Smith is in fact "ready" to start a game, you give him the ARI game.  Not a gimme game, but less chance of a letdown game for the Flames than the VGK game where they will try to avenge their touchdown loss.  You know it will be MAF, so it's not going to be a high scoring game (hopefully, unless we unleash the 5 goal first period strategy).

 

Any other discussion aside, they are going with the hot hand.  

[travel_dude]

STL is getting buried this season.  Allen hasn;t been great, but they are getting shut out on the other end, while he stops as much as he can, considering the defense they have this season.  He's signed for another 2 years after this at $4.35m.

 

Would a Smith for Allen swap make any sense to either team?

Smith, while struggling here, is a leader and fighter.

Allen just hasn't had the run support in STL in the last 2 years.

 

Any takers? 

[Thebrewcrew]

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

STL is getting buried this season.  Allen hasn;t been great, but they are getting shut out on the other end, while he stops as much as he can, considering the defense they have this season.  He's signed for another 2 years after this at $4.35m.

 

Would a Smith for Allen swap make any sense to either team?

Smith, while struggling here, is a leader and fighter.

Allen just hasn't had the run support in STL in the last 2 years.

 

Any takers? 

I'm a Jake Allen fan. He's got all the tools you want in a goalie, big, moves well, smart puck-handler. The battle for him is between the ears. With the right goalie coach, you could sculpt him into something special, much like Burke did with Dubnyk in ARI. Not sure we have that though

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I'm a Jake Allen fan. He's got all the tools you want in a goalie, big, moves well, smart puck-handler. The battle for him is between the ears. With the right goalie coach, you could sculpt him into something special, much like Burke did with Dubnyk in ARI. Not sure we have that though

 

Right.  All we need is a goalie and a goalie coach.

Perhaps Rittich can give him the motivation and the tips.

 

The trade would be from a position of weakness on both sides, but both teams need to do something drastic with their "starters".  I doubt SMith would be any worse for them, as his puck moving might help them get out their own end or control the dump ins.  With Allen, we would have to manage him very well.  Let him earn the starter role if he's capable.  It could probably solve the long term need here, since him and Rittich could form a deadly tandem.

 

We would need to sewaten the pot, because it's not close to an even trade asset wise.  Include a pick or prospect.  They can't really take back salary.

[JTech780]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

STL is getting buried this season.  Allen hasn;t been great, but they are getting shut out on the other end, while he stops as much as he can, considering the defense they have this season.  He's signed for another 2 years after this at $4.35m.

 

Would a Smith for Allen swap make any sense to either team?

Smith, while struggling here, is a leader and fighter.

Allen just hasn't had the run support in STL in the last 2 years.

 

Any takers? 

 

I would look at it. The thing with Allen for me is that he isn't a true number 1. He can be effective but in a 1A/1B situation. I think it would give us a bit of a backup if Ritter can't keep up his tremendous play.

 

From St. Louis's perspective it would clear cap space for them to go after Bobrovsky. It kinda of feels like tgey are ready to move on from Allen. We might have to add a prospect or a pick.

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I would look at it. The thing with Allen for me is that he isn't a true number 1. He can be effective but in a 1A/1B situation. I think it would give us a bit of a backup if Ritter can't keep up his tremendous play.

 

From St. Louis's perspective it would clear cap space for them to go after Bobrovsky. It kinda of feels like tgey are ready to move on from Allen. We might have to add a prospect or a pick.

 

That's what I was thinking about.  He was great when he had Elliott there to battle with.

It would also push Ritter to concentrate on winning the games he gets.

The Elliott trade would be a baseline, so I don;t think it would take a 2nd to get it done.

 

[Thebrewcrew]

I think this afternoon was a good building block game for Smith. Yotes are what they are but he made a couple good saves. Go back to Rittich for the Dallas game then go to Smith for the LA game. Give him the lighter games for a bit so slowly build him back up

[travel_dude]

27 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I think this afternoon was a good building block game for Smith. Yotes are what they are but he made a couple good saves. Go back to Rittich for the Dallas game then go to Smith for the LA game. Give him the lighter games for a bit so slowly build him back up

 

Both are games where the other team plays the night before.

Both are winnable if we set the pace early.

 

I agree with you that Rittich then Smith is the best idea.

Smith has not been great in 2nd starts in a row,

He's also struggled against the Stars.

 

It's a good sign that Smith was able to handle the low danger shots.

That can be the biggest concern with him in 1-0 games.

Then again the high-danger ones he was able to stop was a good sign too.

[Thebrewcrew]

Wes Gilbertson tweeted he thinks Smith starts tomorrow. I hope not. Smith was fine Sunday against a disinterested ARI team. Rittich was the only reason the game in VGK was close. I seem to recall a few light shows against DAL last season with smith in net 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Wes Gilbertson tweeted he thinks Smith starts tomorrow. I hope not. Smith was fine Sunday against a disinterested ARI team. Rittich was the only reason the game in VGK was close. I seem to recall a few light shows against DAL last season with smith in net 

 

He's guessing.  Smith was in the "starters net" at practice, but BP said they haven;t decised yet.

If it was an obvious choce he would have announced Smth as the starter.

[cross16]

Goalie news for the ABS crowd. 

 

I'm not a Pickard guy, nor do I think the Flames have interest but he's out there.

 

 

[JTech780]

 

[JTech780]

15 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Goalie news for the ABS crowd. 

 

I'm not a Pickard guy, nor do I think the Flames have interest but he's out there.

 

 

 

At one point I would have been on board with Pickard, but now I think he is probably a step backwards from Smith.