Goaltending

[travel_dude]

32 minutes ago, kehatch said:

 

Of who we have I would agree.  Based on waiver eligibility and play last season.  But right now I don't like anyone as our back-up. 

 

One thing to keep in mind is the China effect though.  Smith talked about the jet lag having a big impact on his game.  

 

The impact of being older and traveling.  Tkachuk played his first game with 3 hours sleep, yet he was the best player on the ice.  I have been worried about goaltending all summer, but I won't go on about it.  With what we have, I thought Rittich and Parsons played the best.  That's not really saying a lot.  And it's just my opinions.

 

Parsons is so athletic, but is like Hasek.  All over the place.  Rittich has shown more technical play, but had a bad game against the Oilers, where he had little help.  He still needs to make those saves, but it was a tune up game for him.  Gillies played well against a NHL team missing three top players, behind the entire Flames NHL roster.  Smith has looked rusty.  Was not impressed last night at all.  

[MAC331]

47 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The impact of being older and traveling.  Tkachuk played his first game with 3 hours sleep, yet he was the best player on the ice.  I have been worried about goaltending all summer, but I won't go on about it.  With what we have, I thought Rittich and Parsons played the best.  That's not really saying a lot.  And it's just my opinions.

 

Parsons is so athletic, but is like Hasek.  All over the place.  Rittich has shown more technical play, but had a bad game against the Oilers, where he had little help.  He still needs to make those saves, but it was a tune up game for him.  Gillies played well against a NHL team missing three top players, behind the entire Flames NHL roster.  Smith has looked rusty.  Was not impressed last night at all.  

They have pre-season for a few reasons and one is to have the players round into game shape. While this is taking place you have to be equally careful not to read into some of the exceptional performances such as Dube so far. Mind you Dube's overall play has shown well for him. Personally I would like to see Gilles get a string of NHL games if the plan is to limit Smith's starts. They likely will use Rittich as the back up rather than lose him on waivers.

[cccsberg]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

The impact of being older and traveling.  Tkachuk played his first game with 3 hours sleep, yet he was the best player on the ice.  I have been worried about goaltending all summer, but I won't go on about it.  With what we have, I thought Rittich and Parsons played the best.  That's not really saying a lot.  And it's just my opinions.

 

Parsons is so athletic, but is like Hasek.  All over the place.  Rittich has shown more technical play, but had a bad game against the Oilers, where he had little help.  He still needs to make those saves, but it was a tune up game for him.  Gillies played well against a NHL team missing three top players, behind the entire Flames NHL roster.  Smith has looked rusty.  Was not impressed last night at all.  

Good comment overall, though I got a chuckle  comparing him to Hazek, probably the best goalie of all-time as some sort of negative.    To me, whether you are more conventional with “technical” play, or “all over the place” the bottom line is can you stop the puck?  Even more than that, thinking of Fuhr, can you make the stops when the game is on the line?  Who cares what the style is?  

[travel_dude]

16 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Good comment overall, though I got a chuckle  comparing him to Hazek, probably the best goalie of all-time as some sort of negative.    To me, whether you are more conventional with “technical” play, or “all over the place” the bottom line is can you stop the puck?  Even more than that, thinking of Fuhr, can you make the stops when the game is on the line?  Who cares what the style is?  

 

Naw, I was just using him as an example of compete level.  Parsons does not give up.  He may not be the biggest or make the best technical saves, but he does battle.  My concern about Gillies is that for a huge goalie, he plays small.  I don't know if it's because he plays too deep and does not block much of the top of the net or what.  The Oiler goalie sucks, but he plays huge.  I want to see Gillies play further out and take away angles and space.  I don't want to see him have enough room above his shoulders to wedge a small person in.

 

[Thebrewcrew]

The Athletic ranked the starting goalies, they had Smith at tied for 19th with Jake Allen. Some interesting thoughts though from the anonymous voters. Some said he’s “clinging to the end”. Needless to say this should be his last season with us

 

Bobrovsky I would say is unlikely, sure we could go get him at the deadline but can’t see him signing here long term. I expect him and Panarin to be a package deal like Paris’s and Suter were. I expect the two CBJ stars to end up in NYI.

 

Depending on how Rittich, Gillies and Parsons perform this year I think the best move may be to go out and sign Varlamov to a 2 year deal and in a perfect world you have either Gillies or Parsons as his backup ready to start in 2 seasons

[kehatch]

Hopefully the preseason isn't a projection of the regular season, because our goaltending has been crap. 

[DirtyDeeds]

On 9/24/2018 at 8:05 AM, travel_dude said:

 

That's the way Rittich has been in his career with the Heat.  Great one night, bad the next.  

As it stands now, Rittich is the only choice.  As good as Gillies looks, he's not ready.

Rittich is, but needs to play good every night.

This (inconsistancy)has been happening with most of our prospects in our system for many years now. I believe it is now on the goalie coaches and management who seem to not want to adjust or tweak that area.

 

I will also say JJ has been trying to tell us for many years we don't do a decent job of developing goalies and year after year nothing much comes out of our goalie development system.

 

I can only look at the present coaching and developing system as a failure because there are zero successes over a long period of time.

[Flyerfan52]

It'll be interesting to see if the downsizing of the chest protectors makes a difference in any goalie's game.

The change happens starting with today's games.

[7wit]

1 hour ago, kehatch said:

Hopefully the preseason isn't a projection of the regular season, because our goaltending has been crap. 

You got that correct! Didn’t see the game today, but if Smith is now just hanging on...would Gillies then become our starter? Now what? He may get a lot more NHL action than we think and Rittich could play in Stockton. I know it’s preseason, but Smith doesn’t make me confident. If he’s 19th best in the league, we are not a deep playoff team. 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

This (inconsistancy)has been happening with most of our prospects in our system for many years now. I believe it is now on the goalie coaches and management who seem to not want to adjust or tweak that area.

 

I will also say JJ has been trying to tell us for many years we don't do a decent job of developing goalies and year after year nothing much comes out of our goalie development system.

 

I can only look at the present coaching and developing system as a failure because there are zero successes over a long period of time.

 

It's worrisome that JS was the goalie coach in Abby before he came to CGY.  Nothing good came out of that city either.  Now he's been up here doing squat for years.  Of all the changes they made this summer, the one that seemed to go unchecked was the goalie coach.  That's really too bad.

 

I don;t know how much JS had to do with development in CGY, but his record with the number of goalies here has been a failure.  In theory, that should be a firing offence.

 

2011-2014 Abby

2014-present CGY

[kehatch]

2 hours ago, 7wit said:

You got that correct! Didn’t see the game today, but if Smith is now just hanging on...would Gillies then become our starter? Now what? He may get a lot more NHL action than we think and Rittich could play in Stockton. I know it’s preseason, but Smith doesn’t make me confident. If he’s 19th best in the league, we are not a deep playoff team. 

 

Nah. It is the preseason.  Smith was bad in the preaseason last year as well. Kipper was always terrible in the preseason.  My guess it is Smith/Rittich to start and they will see how things go. Unless a better name shows up on waivers, and that would be for back-up (i.e. McBackup)

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, kehatch said:

 

Nah. It is the preseason.  Smith was bad in the preaseason last year as well. Kipper was always terrible in the preseason.  My guess it is Smith/Rittich to start and they will see how things go. Unless a better name shows up on waivers, and that would be for back-up (i.e. McBackup)

 

There should be some moves to the waiver wire soon enough.

What I saw today from Smith was not great, but as you say, it's pre-season.

Just trying to make it through without an injury.

 

I would have liked to see the backup play a period, but they must have already made their decision.

[cccsberg]

15 hours ago, kehatch said:

Hopefully the preseason isn't a projection of the regular season, because our goaltending has been crap. 

Not totally, but it certainly hasn't been stellar and does seem to be the team's clear weakness.  BP must be having nightmares and hoping Smith & Co. can hold the fort....

[MAC331]

4 hours ago, cccsberg said:

Not totally, but it certainly hasn't been stellar and does seem to be the team's clear weakness.  BP must be having nightmares and hoping Smith & Co. can hold the fort....

There is little sense to keep arguing with kehatch on this goaltending.

[kehatch]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

There is little sense to keep arguing with kehatch on this goaltending.

 

I don't think he was arguing.  Regardless, your post adds to the conversation how?  

[travel_dude]

I just hope that Smith is indeed a slow starter, but will be fine once the puck drops.

We have a decent defense.  Arguably, Hanifin/Hamonic is already better than the best of Brodie/Hamonic.

Gio-Brodie has not looked that bad defensively.  In fact they are starting to look good.

The 3rd pair of Andersson/Valimaki/Stone will at least be competent.

 

I hope Parsons' issues are behind him and he can take the reins as the next top prospect.  Still some years away IMHO.

There's an outside chance that Gillies will be starter-ready by next season.

If Rittich can handle the backup role, then at least we have that spot solid.

 

Smith is our best option this year for starter, but it's maybe just one year.

Why are we back in this mess again.

[DirtyDeeds]

7 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

I just hope that Smith is indeed a slow starter, but will be fine once the puck drops.

We have a decent defense.  Arguably, Hanifin/Hamonic is already better than the best of Brodie/Hamonic.

Gio-Brodie has not looked that bad defensively.  In fact they are starting to look good.

The 3rd pair of Andersson/Valimaki/Stone will at least be competent.

 

I hope Parsons' issues are behind him and he can take the reins as the next top prospect.  Still some years away IMHO.

There's an outside chance that Gillies will be starter-ready by next season.

If Rittich can handle the backup role, then at least we have that spot solid.

 

Smith is our best option this year for starter, but it's maybe just one year.

Why are we back in this mess again.

Smith was only offered a two year contract because of his age(I assume). If he plays well enough then he can be offered 1 year extensions..

It is not a mess until it is clear his play has been eroding or he plays out his contract and does not re-sign or BT does not find a replacement and none of our prospects are ready to fill the starter position.

[Thebrewcrew]

Hopefully we get to see the backup more than once or twice in the opening month. Assuming it's Rittich give him a couple early starts like the road game in COL on the 13th and on MTL on the 23rd. If he plays well, great if not get him out of here before he costs us too many points

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, kehatch said:

 

I don't think he was arguing.  Regardless, your post adds to the conversation how?  

What conversation would that be ? Your 5,000 posts about your feelings on our goalies. No thx

[kehatch]

20 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

What conversation would that be ? Your 5,000 posts about your feelings on our goalies. No thx

 

Then don't hit SUBMIT REPLY. 

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

Smith was only offered a two year contract because of his age(I assume). If he plays well enough then he can be offered 1 year extensions..

It is not a mess until it is clear his play has been eroding or he plays out his contract and does not re-sign or BT does not find a replacement and none of our prospects are ready to fill the starter position.

 

He's actually on the last year of a 6 year deal.

If he plays like most of last year, they will likely offer him a 1 year deal.

I say it's a mess because we don;t have a clear cut starter near ready.

If we have to go the trade route, we lose picks and/or prospects to get it done.

If we have to sign a UFA, we have cap issues.

[conundrumed]

5 hours ago, MAC331 said:

What conversation would that be ? Your 5,000 posts about your feelings on our goalies. No thx

Why is this necessary?

 

One thing we need to remember is that vets, including most goalies, don't look for success in the preseason. They get into game shape and they build it up slowly.

They have nothing to prove, they've done this year after year.

What I see year after year, is the NHL looks like the AHL for the first 10-odd games.

Then the men get separated from the boys. The NHLers from those that need more seasoning.

It pays to be patient and not look at preseason as anything more than scrimmage games.

Detroit just went 7-1, for example.

Preseason is no time to make judgment on the play. It's just trying things.

[MAC331]

13 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Why is this necessary?

 

One thing we need to remember is that vets, including most goalies, don't look for success in the preseason. They get into game shape and they build it up slowly.

They have nothing to prove, they've done this year after year.

What I see year after year, is the NHL looks like the AHL for the first 10-odd games.

Then the men get separated from the boys. The NHLers from those that need more seasoning.

It pays to be patient and not look at preseason as anything more than scrimmage games.

Detroit just went 7-1, for example.

Preseason is no time to make judgment on the play. It's just trying things.

I understand this, some do not. We live in the age of people using small samples to form over night opinions. Analytics has become "over analyze" everything little thing to death.

We are also entering a period of time in this game where very talented young players can walk into the NHL and be effective. Dube on the 4th line LW is not a waste of his talents. Valimaki on the 3rd pairing is not a waste of his talents. These are two players that can address two openings that are not mucked up by vets and their contracts.

[travel_dude]

13 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I understand this, some do not. We live in the age of people using small samples to form over night opinions. Analytics has become "over analyze" everything little thing to death.

We are also entering a period of time in this game where very talented young players can walk into the NHL and be effective. Dube on the 4th line LW is not a waste of his talents. Valimaki on the 3rd pairing is not a waste of his talents. These are two players that can address two openings that are not mucked up by vets and their contracts.

 

This thread was about goatending, most recently the backups and possible solutions.  Most people are saying the same thing as Conundrumed, that Smith's pre-season play is nothing to get too worked up about.  The backups on the other hand do not have that history and need to prove something.

 

The discussion here is mostly about improving our net.  Only part of the Flames roster that doesn't bring a lot of comfort to fans.

Looking for the next Kipper should always be on the table.

[MAC331]

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

This thread was about goatending, most recently the backups and possible solutions.  Most people are saying the same thing as Conundrumed, that Smith's pre-season play is nothing to get too worked up about.  The backups on the other hand do not have that history and need to prove something.

 

The discussion here is mostly about improving our net.  Only part of the Flames roster that doesn't bring a lot of comfort to fans.

Looking for the next Kipper should always be on the table.

THX for pointing that out Capt Obvious. Our back ups the ones we have need to play in order to know what we have in them and not be judge by last season behind a messed up team. How do you find the next Kipper if you don't give players the chance ?