Fire Feaster!

[travel_dude]

I don't know about that. I think that players in those sports tend to work out a certain way to play within it. Look at Jones, his dad was a decent NBA player and Jones chose hockey over basketball. I think that if you're an athletic type, you're an athletic type. Muscle memory and repetition allows you to build your skill on what you have. There are a lot who are just gifted naturally at it. I think those are the ones who know the game, think the game and live the game inside out. Others have to work at it but still make the NHL or other sports leagues. 

 

I think that goes for learning how to assess trades and value to players. I think that once we have players of good pedigree he will be able to negotiate from a place of strength. The Regehr deal was probably more from weakness as I think people viewed Reggie as slowing down and the Flames were ready to get him out. 

 

Let's see how he does with negotiations when we're in a position of strength.

You do realize that his dad was 6'8".  That is a big difference to Seth's 6'4".  The average height in the NBA is around 6'7".  Sure there are guys like Spud, but not hat many.  At 6'4", Seth would be a long shot for anything other than a guard position in basketball. 

 

He grew up an Avs fan, so he was exposed to hockey.  My point was that the US will continue to grow more of these guys that may be better suited for hockey over basketball or football.

[robrob1974]

You do realize that his dad was 6'8".  That is a big difference to Seth's 6'4".  The average height in the NBA is around 6'7".  Sure there are guys like Spud, but not hat many.  At 6'4", Seth would be a long shot for anything other than a guard position in basketball. 

 

He grew up an Avs fan, so he was exposed to hockey.  My point was that the US will continue to grow more of these guys that may be better suited for hockey over basketball or football.

He had the choice to play hockey or basketball before his body said he was more of a long shot to make the NBA at 6'4." Nobody grows up knowing for sure what their height is going to be. You make these decisions long before you know. Kids have their desire to play the sports they want and will play them. If it's hockey, it's hockey, if it's basketball it's basketball and if it's football it is football, etc, etc, etc. Seth chose. You don't think his agility on the ice can translate into agility on the basketball court? I know they're different sports but I played both growing up.

[geos]

Believe it or not, organized hockey in the USA is growing.  There are now as many Americans in organized hockey as Canadians.  If this trend continues, we could see as much as TWO TIMES the amount of Americans in organized hockey than Canadians in about 6 ot 7 years.  Odds are, the best prospects will eventually come from the USA.  You already see U-18 and World Junior American teams at par or better than Team Canada.

 

So this labelling of "college players" and American born players does not hold as much negative connotation as it used to.  They may now actually be a trending hot bed and could be a big producer of diamonds in the rough.

 

I have nothing against American players. But there is alot of value in playing junior hockey over and above the lightweight NCAA schedule. There is a reason few stars come out of the NCAA pathway.

Baseball is also going through ugly times with drug abuse and they may turn away naturally gifted athletes aspiring to be a baseball player.  Maybe they will choose hockey instead.

 

Hockey doesn't have a drug problem because they don't test/look for it. It's ridiculous to assume no hockey player has touched any PEDs in the last decade. How many suspensions or violations has hockey caught?

[Wreckening]

Wow has this thread ever gone off the rails.

[robrob1974]

Wow has this thread ever gone off the rails.

 

No doubt. I didn't bring up any of the stuff, but I did help perpetuate it.

 

ANyway, Feaster and Co. is doing a decent job changing their vision and getting bigger and more skilled players and I hope that it continues. 

 

Honestly, as long as we get smart, two way skilled players, they don't have to be elite, but if we can get 3 lines worth of 2nd liners where we may have 1 or two bonafide guys who can play first line. I am thinking in lines of the Bruins. 

[DirtyDeeds]

I'll try to set the focus back on Fire feaster....

 

I notice a few posters singing the praises of Feaster for getting all the RFA's re-signed...

Okay but don't go overboard about it because that is his job to do so, unless they don't fit in the plans going forward anymore.

 

It doesn't mean Feaster is doing a "great job" or "exceptional job", it just means he is doing his job.

[s4xon]

You do realize that his dad was 6'8".  That is a big difference to Seth's 6'4". 

 

What height is he now?

[travel_dude]

What height is he now?

 

He probably dropped to 6'2" in the winter.  You know shrinkage...

 

Changing the focus....

Feaster has, so far at least, been cautious with the start of the re-build. Some draft choices that left a few scratching their heads, but nothing that bad. A Coke Fridge with casters.  Some high school kid that is pretty tough.  No stupid UFA signings (so far).  Reasonable term/dollar for RFA signings.  Some depth signings like Byron, Nemo, Butler that I wasn't overly happy with, but you need someone to play during injury callups.  A dancing bear.

 

Overall, I don't mind the direction we are going in so far.  I like the depth of our prospect cupboard.  Monny could surprise us all and stay up for the season.  Ramo could be the signing of the decade (or just ok).  In a year, Johnny Hockey might be on the big club lighting it up.  I bring that up because another GM (Sutter, etc.) could have traded him for a 30-something has been.

 

Sounds like a bit of a circus, but we won't be fighting for a playoff spot this year.  Feaster isn't knocking it out of the park, but he is getting some singles, a few bunts, and a few base-on-balls.

[Young_Guns_V2]

Actually Feaster is being more shrewd with the contracts. He actually seems to be getting smarter. I think he is doing alright given the situation.

[kehatch]

Actually Feaster is being more shrewd with the contracts. He actually seems to be getting smarter. I think he is doing alright given the situation.

 

30 of 30 GMs would have signed Feaster's RFA to the same or similar contracts.  It has been GM by numbers. 

[Carty]

So far this summer, Feaster rates a "C"...   A barely passing grade...   Nothing too risky, but nothing spectacular either...

 

This could be a slow rebuild...

[tmac70]

I have to with the guys who are giving Feaster a mere passing grad. He go ton base via a walk. The contracts he got signed were cautious but also that any other GM in the league would have extended to what we have signed. This team is a speculative mystery on how long this rebuild will be, we have no clue yet how any of the prospects or draft choices turnout in the show.

 

Until we see this unfold, we can all speculate how good anyone will become till they are given the chance. Letting the younger guys play only increases their value and skills, which will speed up the process.

[Young_Guns_V2]

I am glad he isn't signing a lot of names because we need a chance to evaluate the young prospects we have. Also this isn't exactly a FA first choice destination either - not without the big bucks. And to note we are actually back on topic.

[The_People1]

So far this summer, Feaster rates a "C"...   A barely passing grade...   Nothing too risky, but nothing spectacular either...

 

This could be a slow rebuild...

 

It depends though.  Those who wanted Feaster to stand pat and be patient with the rebuild would say Feaster deserves an "A" this summer.  Others who wanted to replace JBo's minutes so the Flames can make a legitimate run at the playoffs next season, would give Feaster a "C" or less.

 

Compared to the start of last season, the Flames got worse with defensemen and goaltending.  Forwards is a push.  It's still a mess because we still don't have a game breaking #1 Center.  We lose Iginla but he came with both pro's and con's so the Flames come out of that even.  Forwards didn't improve.

 

We didn't get closer to the playoffs.

[jjgallow]

It depends though.  Those who wanted Feaster to stand pat and be patient with the rebuild would say Feaster deserves an "A" this summer.  Others who wanted to replace JBo's minutes so the Flames can make a legitimate run at the playoffs next season, would give Feaster a "C" or less.

 

Compared to the start of last season, the Flames got worse with defensemen and goaltending.  Forwards is a push.  It's still a mess because we still don't have a game breaking #1 Center.  We lose Iginla but he came with both pro's and con's so the Flames come out of that even.  Forwards didn't improve.

 

We didn't get closer to the playoffs.

 

I agree.  Although, forwards are short-lived.  If you're not improving them, you're getting worse.

 

Iginla had pluses and minuses.  But from an offensive perspective, he was a plus.  A big plus. And he's gone.

 

Baertschi and Backlund are rising.   Can they make up for the loss of Iginla's offense, Cervenka's offense,  and the natural decline of Cammi, Glencross, and Hudler, who will all be over 30 this year?

 

I think we've gotten worse at every position, but I absolutely agree with the order.  Goaltending/defense have, by Far, declined the most, and the forward line is also diminished.  In the pipeline, we do have forward depth in Gaudreau, Jankow, and Monahan.  But all three are at least two years out from making a significant contribution.

 

I don't disagree with holding back on free agents.  We should be patient and build through the draft.  Especially with some incredibly strong draft years coming up soon.  

 

But, is Feaster doing this intentionally, or is this just an extension of what he's always struggled with:  Signing top talent?

 

I think his days are numbered.  Fair or unfair, we are headed for rough waters and I don't see the GM surviving.  

[conundrumed]

There are so many levels to this discussion that I'm bound to be wrong.

Looking historically at his moves, there is the giant grain of salt that we didn't have much trade value here and empty prospect cupboards.

He took over definitely working at a disadvantage.

Blow it up sooner would have been better in hindsight, but none of us can be certain if that's him or KK's resolution, so kinda have to give him a pass.

As others have said, his signings have generally been normal, trades are pretty much a wash.

It's unfortunate that he's a couple year's behind what should be the 3rd yr into a rebuild, instead of year 1.

I find it very hard to judge due to what he had to work with and a "hands-on" prez.

They've expanded the scouting net and taken some risks to try to find a path whilst continuing to try to stock the prospect shelves, I have no problem with that.

I find it hard to be too hard on him, due to the sole reason he took over a team severely hemorraging in several areas.

Our prospect pool had to be fixed, while at the same time our NHL team sucked.

That's a rock and a hard place. Even going after Richards I thought wasn't a great move, simply because there isn't a panacea in one player to solve the woes we had.

We, the fans, were pretty much left to overrate what we actually were as a team. I spent a lot of time looking at our personnel to other rosters, and we just weren't even close to most throughout most of our lineup.

 

It's all on development now, which is new and scary to me due to our history of never accommodating a prospect's actual abilities, but pounding round pegs into square holes.

The problems predated Feaster, but I think this is his "clean slate" year for him.

I'm not gonna rate him so far, but he got the greenlight to call it a rebuild, so I can only watch how he does it now.

There are some good indications in the prospect pool, but it's a few years off yet. So it's all "in the meantime" for me now.

I'm pretty suspect of him, but I'll try to be unbias.

[travel_dude]

I agree.  Although, forwards are short-lived.  If you're not improving them, you're getting worse.

 

Iginla had pluses and minuses.  But from an offensive perspective, he was a plus.  A big plus. And he's gone.

 

Baertschi and Backlund are rising.   Can they make up for the loss of Iginla's offense, Cervenka's offense,  and the natural decline of Cammi, Glencross, and Hudler, who will all be over 30 this year?

 

I think we've gotten worse at every position, but I absolutely agree with the order.  Goaltending/defense have, by Far, declined the most, and the forward line is also diminished.  In the pipeline, we do have forward depth in Gaudreau, Jankow, and Monahan.  But all three are at least two years out from making a significant contribution.

 

I don't disagree with holding back on free agents.  We should be patient and build through the draft.  Especially with some incredibly strong draft years coming up soon.  

 

But, is Feaster doing this intentionally, or is this just an extension of what he's always struggled with:  Signing top talent?

 

I think his days are numbered.  Fair or unfair, we are headed for rough waters and I don't see the GM surviving.  

Will we see some declines in scoring?  Of course.

We lose the following scenarios:

- Tanguay has some speed coming up the ice, hits the blueline and drops it off to a surprise Iggy who loses the puck.

- Tanguay is skating in on the rush and has a glorious chance to shoot, but passes.

- Iggy on the boards and muscles his way into the O-zone.  Passes to someone who loses possession.

 

What I am getting at is that Iggy/Tangs took a lot of possession time away from those that could finish.  GlenX scored on about 20% of his shots, but didn't take that many.  Tangs had an awesome, effortless wrist shot, but mostly passed it once too many times.

 

Here is how I see our team shaping up.

 

Positives:

- Better faceoff ability due to using natural centres

- Better powerplay QB with Wideman or Brodie (better with experience with the team) 

- No more country club

- Players in contract years (Cammi, Stemps, Stajan !!)

- Power Play will not be wasted using players on the decline (really just Iggy/Tangs)

- Chance to have better than sub-average goaltending that we had last year

 

Negatives:

- Loss of Iggy goals and Tangs assists

- Not a lot of big time goal scorers; a bit like Phoenix - score by committee

- Unproven starting goalie

- Loss of JBow minute munching - more stress and effort dropped on guys like Brodie, Gio and Wideman

 

I don't have dreams of us making the playoffs this year, but I feel that the Feast is setting us up for a decent rebuild.  We don't have any elite players (that we know of), so Feast will be given some time.  As long as he makes reasonable trades/signings he is ok for a few years.  We got rid of the guy that created the mess, so give the team time to rebound.

[DirtyDeeds]

It depends though.  Those who wanted Feaster to stand pat and be patient with the rebuild would say Feaster deserves an "A" this summer.  Others who wanted to replace JBo's minutes so the Flames can make a legitimate run at the playoffs next season, would give Feaster a "C" or less.

 

Compared to the start of last season, the Flames got worse with defensemen and goaltending.  Forwards is a push.  It's still a mess because we still don't have a game breaking #1 Center.  We lose Iginla but he came with both pro's and con's so the Flames come out of that even.  Forwards didn't improve.

 

We didn't get closer to the playoffs.

I don't agree with your phrasing in this comment. Wanting us to have a replacement for JBo isn't to make a run at the playoffs any more than wanting a #1 Center. We need some quality #1-3D as much as a #1 Center.

 

Are we supposed to endure some "Oiler style scorched earth rebuild, dwell in the basement for decades" type pain????

 

Those positions are the foundation of a quality team, so when does it matter when we fill those spots?. Getting those spots filled properly, sooner than later, will only shorten the time needed to do this rebuild.

[conundrumed]

I don't agree with your phrasing in this comment. Wanting us to have a replacement for JBo isn't to make a run at the playoffs any more than wanting a #1 Center. We need some quality #1-3D as much as a #1 Center.

 

Are we supposed to endure some "Oiler style scorched earth rebuild, dwell in the basement for decades" type pain????

 

Those positions are the foundation of a quality team, so when does it matter when we fill those spots?. Getting those spots filled properly, sooner than later, will only shorten the time needed to do this rebuild.

 

Not to butt in, but it is unfortunate that sooner and properly don't always jibe.

You can add the G position to that as well.

Hopefully the pain will be a few short seasons and not driven in the Oilers style of "hurry up everyone, be a great NHLer".

But this is definitely what the bottom looks like, so have to study the horizon!

Hopefully Feaster finds/has some pieces to help in the not-too-distant future with this year's moves, as fairly low-brow as many appear on the surface.

[jjgallow]

I don't agree with your phrasing in this comment. Wanting us to have a replacement for JBo isn't to make a run at the playoffs any more than wanting a #1 Center. We need some quality #1-3D as much as a #1 Center.

 

I  completely agree that we need #1D as much as we need a #1 Center.  We Used to need the #1 center more.  The situation has changed, now we need First liners at all positions except possibly left wing.  And you build your team just as much around your defence as you do your center.  It's really kind of like a tricycle, where the wingers are the handlebars.  The only thing people notice is those pink streamers, until one of the three wheels break down.

 

But I think what ThePeople meant was that, more generally, there have been zero roster moves which would suggest that we will be a playoff contender this year, and some people (okay, the majority of average fans), will be very angry about this.

 

I actually think we have no choice now, and it's the right thing to do.  But I'm not sure if Feaster thinks this, or if he simply continues to fail to sign top talent.  My guess is it's the latter.

 

Are we supposed to endure some "Oiler style scorched earth rebuild, dwell in the basement for decades" type pain????

 

Regrettably, yes.  Just look at the roster...we've already scorched the earth.   The loss of Tanguay was the confirmation of that.  Whether it goes on for a decade depends on how well we draft and develop.

 

I fundamentally disagree with the approach.  I believe teams should draft and develop Every year to be consistently competitive.  Like the Devils and Wings have for years.

 

However, there's no use crying over spilled milk.  We've already scorched.  Once you go down this road, there is only really one way to emerge, and that's a full rebuild.   No big stars are going to sign with us now.  We can't free-agent our way out of this and we can't trade our way out without sacrificing our future (which is what got us into this mess).

 

There is probably more scorching to follow.  It's a  snowball effect.  Our remaining elite veterans will be looking to get out.  

 

I'm not happy about this but at this point, it's inevitable.   At Least....we have better draft years coming up than the Oilers did.

 

Next year:   Two sons of former Flames will battle for the top 3 draft spots (Nylander, Reinhart).

 

2015:  The best draft year since 1984, when Mario Lemieux was picked.  All eyes will be on Connor McDavid, who will potentially re-define somebody's franchise, and the NHL.

 

p.s....Probably  just a coincidence that most recent major rebuilds have started at the same time as the organization pushed to build a new arena, right?  Pittsburgh, Edmonton, Calgary...  Let's hope we get the same "luck" at the draft that Pittsburgh did.  Funny this is on a "Fire Feaster" thread...the other recent commonality is a change of ownership.

 

Those positions are the foundation of a quality team, so when does it matter when we fill those spots?. Getting those spots filled properly, sooner than later, will only shorten the time needed to do this rebuild.

 

I think we have to pick between "proprerly", and "sooner than later".

 

If we simply pick the first #1 position players available, we are one step closer to not being in the bottom of the league.

 

But if we want a Stanley cup, we need players that are more than just first-liners.  We need guys that put other first-liners to shame.  And we need depth.   We had this in 1989.  Personally, I think all our current prospects, are just that:  Depth.  With, Possibly, the exception of Baertschi (maybe).

 

The cornerstones of our franchise...in terms of the next time we win the cup:  We haven't drafted them yet.

[robrob1974]

I don't agree with your phrasing in this comment. Wanting us to have a replacement for JBo isn't to make a run at the playoffs any more than wanting a #1 Center. We need some quality #1-3D as much as a #1 Center.

 

Are we supposed to endure some "Oiler style scorched earth rebuild, dwell in the basement for decades" type pain????

 

Those positions are the foundation of a quality team, so when does it matter when we fill those spots?. Getting those spots filled properly, sooner than later, will only shorten the time needed to do this rebuild.

 

Also, as an example; when the Blackhawks were in their rebuild, Keith and Seabrook found and young and they all grew together. So in finding a few young players who can be top D pairings will move it along better and sooner. I don't if that's what you're getting at but it's a need and I see why it's something that needs to be addressed quickly. We can have a great young pairing yet still lose. They will grow together and win eventually as the rebuild progresses.

[cross16]

I don't really think Feaster deserves praise for the offseason. He made a couple of meh deals that don't really help or hurt the club but keep then someone feasible and the highlight of the offseason was the draft where he plays the least part in. I don't think a gm deserves praise for getting rfas signed that is his job and really y the only way to screw it up is to either not sign them or throw way too much money at them so I guess congrats to Feaster for not screwing up but to praise him for it isn't right IMO. Now I'm not putting him down because this is what you have to do in a rebuild you have to be patient but the reason in still sour on Feaster is he out the club here by wasting two years of time thinking the team was dose when they weren't so while he did what you would expect this offseason I blieve it's a situation he created and therefore I'm not really willing to give him credit for fixing his own mess.

I do think there were some opportunities out there and some fa that would have made sense but overal this offseason was just full of opportunities for then to take advantage of.

[conundrumed]

 but the reason in still sour on Feaster is he out the club here by wasting two years of time thinking the team was dose when they weren't so while he did what you would expect this offseason I blieve it's a situation he created and therefore I'm not really willing to give him credit for fixing his own mess.

 

That's the part I struggle with. How much of it was KK?

Because in hindsight, if Feaster's hands were semi-tied, the buffoonery is clearer, in that he was simply trying to motivate, even knowing he had no recourse. If that's closer to the truth, I can't put him down for it.

Kypreos said it loud and clear to a national audience, two trade deadlines ago, blaming King.

I don't recall him making any apologies afterwards, which typically happens when one gets out of line in the media. So I have to assume he was telling the truth.

[cross16]

Whether its king or it was Feaster is irrelevant to me. Feaster is the gm and therefore is ultimately responsible for the hockey transactions of the club and if was all King pulling the strings Feaster should have quite, which is exactly what he did in Tampa. IMO those blaming king are making excuses for Feaster because ultimately the buck stops with him.

And it's not like he has embraced this rebuild as something he always wanted to do. In fact he's acted like he is rebuilding reluctantly

[Redslinger]

Whether its king or it was Feaster is irrelevant to me. Feaster is the gm and therefore is ultimately responsible for the hockey transactions of the club and if was all King pulling the strings Feaster should have quite, which is exactly what he did in Tampa. IMO those blaming king are making excuses for Feaster because ultimately the buck stops with him.

And it's not like he has embraced this rebuild as something he always wanted to do. In fact he's acted like he is rebuilding reluctantly

 

Yeah, on the one hand I agree with this and so did Feaster (past-tense) when he said (I paraphrase) that if the Flames owners want to rebuild they should find another GM to do it. 

 

On the other hand, there are 30 GM jobs in the NHL and walking away from two of them would spell the end of Feaster's ability to land a job with any organization in any sort of hockey ops role.  He's not qualified to be a scout.  He's not qualified to be a coach.  He's not even really qualified as a capologist.  He's a GM, assistant GM or bust.  He would be leaving, what I'm guessing, is his dream job of being a NHL GM and would likely have to go back to the mundane task of being a practicing lawyer (no offense to lawyers).

 

I guess at the end of the day all of us need to determine who our client is, ie. the person(s) we are responsible for making happy.  In my job it's pretty easy:  I have a boss and I have a client that expects a certain level of performance.  Seems to me that Feaster has (rightly) determined that KK and Murray Edwards are his client/boss.  They ultimately agree on the direction, hopefully with some professional hockey guys input, and then Feaster steers the ship in the indicated direction to the best of his abilities.

 

If I was a GM and the President/owner of the team said we are or we are not rebuilding I would do my damndest to make him/her/them happy.