The Flames In Three Years

[kehatch]

Looking at our prospect pool and existing roster what is the Flames line-up in 2013-2014?

Tools:

• Flames Contracts
  
• Flames Full List of Players and Prospects
  
• Cross's Full List of Propsects
  

Here is my crack at it:

Baertschi-OPEN-OPEN

Ferland-Backlund-Nemisz

Glencross-Reinhart-Holland

Byron-Horak-Bouma

Bouwmeester-OPEN

Giordano-Butler

Wotherspoon-Brodie

Irving

Karlson

The Flames have some pretty big holes. They are missing a 1C, 1W, and 1D. They really don't have anyone in the system that projects to that level. They also have a number of big questions on the second line. I am not sold on Nemisz and Ferland playing top 6 is a bit of a leap. Irving also needs to prove he can play in the NHL otherwise they have to find a starting goalie.

I didn't include Tanguay, Stajan, and Bourque (still on contract) or anyone not on contract (including Iginla and Kipper). Bourque, Tanguay, Kipper, and Iginla are some of our only assets that could bring back one of our missing top line players. Iginla will also be 36 while Kipper will be 37. There isn't any room for Stajan in the roster.

I kept Bouwmeester since there is already a 1D hole and the Flames don't have anyone in the system projected to be able to take on that role. However, Bouwmeester could be moved for the right return. He would have to fill one of the other big holes though as he would be creating one when he left.

The organization chooses to keep Iginla. If they do he and Tanguay could fill in on the second line. Tanguay could also stay on his own and replace Ferland.

One of the reasons I, and many other, are excited about a player like Turris is that he could potentially fill one of our big 3 (or 4) holes that need filling. Replacing 5 of your top 6 forward positions is a big task and he could fill one of the toughest holes to fill.

[ali-iggy]

tanguay backlund iginla

baertshi horak glencross

nemisz reinhart holland

bouma byron ferland

bouwmeester butler

giordano brodie

carson mikkelson

[wally31]

Well we can look at the existing prospect pool, and players, but it won't determine what our team will look like.

a. we don't know who else we will draft.

b. don't know if we will trade for someone.

c. don't know if we will sign an FA

etc...

Our prospect pool is weakish right now, but I think that is a top priority for Feaster and company... I personally hope we land Turris.

[kehatch]

Well we can look at the existing prospect pool, and players, but it won't determine what our team will look like.

a. we don't know who else we will draft.

b. don't know if we will trade for someone.

c. don't know if we will sign an FA

etc...

Our prospect pool is weakish right now, but I think that is a top priority for Feaster and company... I personally hope we land Turris.

Obviously. We also don't know how are existing prospect pool will actually perform. But the point is to show where our projected strengths and weaknesses are looking into the future. Currently we have very few players on our team or in our system that project to be significant top 6 forwards.

[Flame111]

Parise - Turris - Iggy

Tangs - Backlund - Baertshi

GlenX - Horak / Jokinen - Byron

X - Horak / Jokinen - X

Bouwmeester Butler

Giordano - Wideman

Brodie - Smith - Carson - Mikkelson ????

Karlsson - (For the first time since Kipper arrived I see a potential replacement and maybe it is just because of his huge game against Buffalo last night but I could see Karlsson taking the #1 spot from Kipper)

Irving

___________

Do the Flames score Turris as a steal deal before Dec 1 from Phx? If so this is what I see.

Obviously my big adds are Zach Parise and Dennis Wideman both of which are signed this off-season as part of the new Flames core for the next several years with long term big dollar contracts.

4th line is really your tough energy line. Every year you can rejig it on the fly and get your Jackmans, Prusts, Nystroms if your young players aren't ready OR your young prospects earn the spot in there, the important thing is you don't overpay on market and you put the right prospects there.

Joker - many are probably really surprised to see this but I see Joker here at the age of 34-35 as a mentor as well and rotating between the 3rd and 4th line constantly as the Flames develop players in. This happens ONLY if Joker takes a decent hometown discount. Depth at C is important and Joker can play his role in this and finish his career in Calgary and contribute. He has massively adjusted his game to responsible two-way play which is key when playing with two young doey eyed rookies. Therefore I give him his NMC but he takes a significant discount for it. His constant and consistent work ethic is an excellent example to young players.

Iggy - Again only at a significant discount resigning, larger scale Joker thing going on here - mentor - leader. Which I think will happen. (Got to be careful with those 35+ contracts though - absolutely can NOT overpay Iggy at this point)

Like 4th line - bottom pairing D is the area to tweak - I don't like what I see down there at the moment but whatever. I can't predict it but Brodie should be in there at least and the 6th spot, we'll see...

P.S. and Jbo resigns the next season in 2014/15 at a huge discount - he owes the team and the organization that based on the overpay and millions of dollars extra he has got over the course of his previous contract.

[jjgallow]

Obviously. We also don't know how are existing prospect pool will actually perform. But the point is to show where our projected strengths and weaknesses are looking into the future. Currently we have very few players on our team or in our system that project to be significant top 6 forwards.

I'm cool with that kehatch, but I hope part II isn't "let's draft based on this projection".

Ie., the Flames needed a centre, but they drafted Bartschi, because he was the BPA.

I agree with what they did, and there is nothing stopping the Flames from using Bartschi in a trade for a top centre. I think it is Feaster's job to make those adjustments as they are needed each season.

Having got that out of my system, I think Reinhart could crack the lineup. I Hope we don't get Turris, because of the risk that he becomes a me-first player. I would like to see Parise in the lineup...that would be nice. But, once again we are missing that first-line centre. Very hard to project how Feaster will solve that issue, but I have confidence that he will. Maybe even this season.

[DirtyDeeds]

Considering we are losing up to half the players on this roster end of this season, a dream team with no budget limits, 3 years down the road would be almost as accurate and much more fun.

[kehatch]

Considering we are losing up to half the players on this roster end of this season, a dream team with no budget limits, 3 years down the road would be almost as accurate and much more fun.

Like Florida? Having cap space is fine. But for a non playoff team to acquire free agents they have to over pay them. Even then many are out of reach.

People dream of getting players like Parise and Suter. But the reality is most of the high end free agents won't even make it to free agency. And those that do will go to teams with a chance of being competitive.

If the Flames don't turn it around shortly then trade and the draft will be the only practical way for this team to get high end players.

[Flame111]

Like Florida? Having cap space is fine. But for a non playoff team to acquire free agents they have to over pay them. Even then many are out of reach.

People dream of getting players like Parise and Suter. But the reality is most of the high end free agents won't even make it to free agency. And those that do will go to teams with a chance of being competitive.

If the Flames don't turn it around shortly then trade and the draft will be the only practical way for this team to get high end players.

This is true but given the circumstances in Jersey this year they won't be resigning Parise with that monster Kovie-like contract

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Crushed-by-their-debt-reports-say-Devils-are-ba?urn=nhl-wp16667

As far as other teams getting Parise, yes you are right. There may be better teams but if you go through all the rosters out there, the owner situations and dollars available. All the long-term contract layout and the Cap room to swing it and still fill out the roster. The Flames are extremely well positioned.

I think the Flames can put the best dollar and term offer on the table for Parise. It makes sense for them to over pay for business reasons to, Flames owners know the importance of a star on the team if it is missing the playoffs

If Zach is thinking mainly dollars and not a Cup chaser like Hossa. He just may go for it with a career contact with Calgary and with the nod that he will be the replacement star in a post Iggy era.

Anyway I have had my rant on Parise at length elsewhere. I honestly think the Flames can put the best offer and dollars on the table and I also think they can do the same for Wideman and STILL fill out their roster next year just fine with a competitive team.

Also I would not group all players in the same basket when they are in their late 20s. Nash took a career contract with the Jackets, they were hardly a Cup contender.

[kehatch]

I definitely think they need to go after Parise. He should be a prime target. But they shouldn't count on Parise or any other free agent. Edmonton did that for years and failed. Cap space doesn't equal success in the free agent market. You have to build a successful foundation before you have a reasonable ability to attract free agents or retain key players.

It is one of the reasons I am concerned about Feaster's direction to build on the fly. It relies on our ability to attract free agents. Well so far we have failed to attract any meaningful free agents, including Richards.

I really don't want to be hearing next season how we 'almost' got Parise. Or Suter. Or whoever.

[ali-iggy]

1st year 2011 2012

trade jokinen ortio and byron for turris

trade bourque hagman babchuk hannan for brassard heusillious and rusell

trade sarich stajan and jackman for eller

trade stempniak tk for ennis

tanguay backlund iginla

glencross turris heusillious

ennis brassard eller

bmo horak moss

bouwmeester butler

giordano rusell

carson smith

next year 2012 2013

heusillious and bmo retire as a flame

we sign green and liles

tanguay backlund iginla

glencross turris ennis

baertshi brassard eller

moss horak bouma/nemisz

bouwmeester liles

giordano green

rusell butler

next year 2013 2014

trade eller for a 2nd and 4th

trade rusell for a 2nd and 5th

tanguay backlund iginla

glencross turris baertshi

ennis brassard nemisz

bouma horak moss

bouwmeester liles

giordano green

butler brodie

so this is what i think that might happen in 3 years

[bosn111]

First of all, Turris is not worth Jokinen, Ortio and Byron. A former #1 centre (currently playing top line as well and putting up good numbers) on a great contract, + a projected 2/3 centreman who is basically NHL ready and a promising young goaltender for a POTENTIAL #1 centre who isn't signed at the moment and has not put up exceptional numbers in the NHL yet and may be another bust resulting in another #2 centre at best is far overpayment in my mind. Also this trade would put Phoenix right at the contract limit and right now they have Hanzal, Langkow, Gordon as their 1/2/3 and then O'Sullivan, Chipchurra, O'Reilly and Miele fighting for the #4 spot. Sending them another starting centre who will be UFA after the season and another centre prospect is not what Phoenix would be looking for.

Not sure why Calgary makes the Columbus trade. Huselius only played 39 games last season and has yet to play this season. Sure he is a solid player when healthy but health is an issue. He also will not retire after this season as he is only 32. He will be looking to play at least 3-4 more seasons. Russell is another left handed shot on D. We have too many Left handed D men, moving Babchuk who is better statistically than Russell, they play the same minutes, Babs has a better +/- and more points, and Babs is a right handed shot makes no sense. Add into that trade one of our best and most experienced shutdown type defencemen and a proven #2 sniper and what do we really get in return? a 2/3 centre along the same lines as Horak, Byron etc., A bottom pair left handed D man who moves the puck better than Butler, Carson, Sarich etc, but still a bottom pair Left handed D and a potential top 6 winger if he can be healthy to stick around. Sorry way too lopsided with not enough return.

Eller could end up being a solid player. I won't say that he won't be. But looking at all of his stats I don't see superstar there. He is another Byron, Horak, Reinhart, Backlund and not even a Backlund. I could see Montreal moving Eller because they already have Plekanec, Desharnais, Gomez etc. and I can see why they would want to add the size and grit of Jackman. I could also see the need for Sarich for injury replacement. However why do they need Stajan? This doesn't even take into account that Montreal does not have the cap space to do this trade. Even moving Eller, they only have about 2.5 million in cap space which is not enough for either Stajan or Sarich let alone both PLUS jackman.

Why do you think Buffalo would do Ennis for Stempniak and Kostopolous? Ennis scored 20 goals and 49 points as a 21/22 year old last season. Buffalo also doesn't have the cap space to do this move. They are up against the cap and Kostopolous alone makes more than Ennis let alone add the 1 million for Stempniak.

Since your trades don't work for this season, I won't even comment on the rest of your moves.

Here is what I would do, and I am actually going 4 years, not 3 (this is based on what I think would work). After this up-comming summer, no moves, just inserting prospects.

2011 / 2012

To Boston:

Bourque,

Hagman,

Brodie,

2012 3rd round pick,

2013 Conditional pick

To Calgary

Krejci

Boychuck

Calgary gets a right handed D man who can play top 4 and a #1 centre. Both of whom are UFA after the season.

Boston gets 2 2nd line wings with multiple 20+ goal seasons, a solid D prospect and 2 draft picks.

To Ottawa

Stajan, Moss, Smith

To Calgary

Konopka

2012 2nd round pick

2013 Conditional pick

Calgary gets a proper 4th line centre and replaces some draft picks. Ottawa gets a #2 centre with history of success in the east. A solid top 9 wing who can also play centre if needed with a 20+ goal season and 2 30+ point seasons and a defensive prospect who though not stellar is doing fine currently in the NHL. With 3 Dmen at 33, 34, 37 Ottawa could use a young defensive prospect who is gaining experience. Stajan's contract for next year is also positive for teams who don't want to spend much but still have cap space as his actual dollars are lower than his cap hit.

Tanguay / Krejci / Iginla (Finally that #1 centre)

Glencross / Jokinen / Backlund (2 centres on a line for draws, Jokinen and Glencross already click. Backlundshould fit well)

Morrison / Horak / Stempniak (2 Vets with skill can really help Horak who is already playing very well)

Kostopolous / Konopka / Jackman (Solid 4th line for checking with plenty of grit and effort)

Letourneau-Leblond (in my opinion he is useless but he is on contract so whatever)

Bouwmeester / Boychuk (Left and Right D men for once, young but talented)

Giordano / Sarich (Left and Right D, gritty and willing to do what it takes)

Hannan / Babchuk (Left and Right D, Hannan can cover for Babchuk defensively)

Butler /Carson (Not willing to give up on either of these 2 just yet)

Kiprusoff (Still a #1)

Karlsson (Solid Backup, possible potential as a #1)

2012 / 2013

Flames do not re-sign Hannan, Sarich, Morrison, Kostopolous or Letourneau Leblond. Trade rights for picks if possible. (Age and necessity no longer enough value)

Flames re-sign Stempniak for 2.25 mil for 1 season (to help Horak and Nemisz)

Flames re-sign Jokinen for 3mil per season over 2 seasons with a NMC. (This keeps #2 centre with potential #1 for cheap.)

Flames re-sign Krejci for 5 mil for 3 seasons. (#1 centre)

Flames re-sign Boychuk for 2.5 mil for 3 seasons (top 4 RH D)

Flames re-sign Konopka for 800k for 2 seasons (4th line centre to flip with Bouma)

Flames re-sign Jackman for 750k for 2 seasons (Solid 4th liner, can fight, cheap, still young, works hard)

Flames sign UFA Wideman for 5 mil for 3 seasons (Top 4 RH D)

Flames bring up

Nemisz (solid 3rd line wing, possible 2nd line. Think Moss with better hands)

Bancks (young 4th line energy grinder for LW)

Bouma (4th line centre, swaps with Konopka)

Tanguay / Krejci / Iginla (Solid top line, very talented, should have developed chemistry)

Glencross / Jokinen / Backlund (Solid second line, talented, should have developed chemistry)

Stempniak / Horak / Nemisz (Stempniak helps the youngsters, Nemisz should be ready)

Bancks / Konopka / Jackman (Tons of energy and grit. Bancks brings more youth to the line)

Bouma (Starts his NHL level experience)

Bouwmeester / Wideman (Left and Right D. Very skilled, young, puck moving line without the Defensive liabilities)

Giordano / Boychuk (Left and R D. Gritty Giordano and slightly more skilled Boychuk. Both still young ish)

Butler / Babchuk (last year on both their contracts, playing for their jobs)

Carson (Last year of contract, likely won't be retained after)

Kiprusoff

Karlsson

2013 / 2014

Flames do not re-sign Butler, Stempniak, Babchuk, Carson. Trade rights for picks if possible. (Just not needed at this time)

Flames re-sign Karlsson. (Solid Backup, don't stunt Irving by playing low minutes)

Flames bring up Baertschi (Should be ready for 2nd line duties)

Wotherspoon (Should hopefully be ready)

Ramage (Should hopefully be ready)

(trade for a right hand D-man if Ramage isn't ready, use Breen instead of Wotherspoon if he isn't ready)

Tanguay / Krejci / Iginla (still a solid line)

Baertschi / Jokinen / Backlund (Baertschi takes over the left side giving extra skill)

Glencross / Horak / Nemisz (Glencross still has skill but Baertschi has more. High energy line with solid skill)

Bancks / Konopka / Jackman (Solid 4th line, lots of Grit)

Bouma

Bouwmeester / Wideman (Left and Right Top 2 D)

Giordano / Boychuk (left and right top 4 D)

Wotherspoon / Ramage (talented young D ready to start their experience)

Kiprusoff (last year of his contract, should be playing almost even minutes with Karlsson as a 1a, 1b tandem)

Karlsson (should be playing almost even minutes with Kiprusoff as a 1a, 1b tandem)

2014 / 2015

Flames don't re-sign Kiprusoff, Bouwmeester, Jokinen or Jackman. Trade rights for picks or prospects if possible.

Flames bring up Irving.

Flames fill #1 RW, #4 RW and #3 RD with trade, UFA or prospect.

Baertschi / Krejci / ?? (hopefully draft) (Let Baertschi take over the top line duties. Youth starts to go)

Tanguay / Backlund / Iginla (Tanguay and Iginla aging, time to downshift to the second line)

Glencross / Horak / Nemisz

Bancks / Bouma / ?? (hopefully draft) (Bouma should be ready for full top 4th line)

Giordano / Wideman

Wotherspoon / Boychuk

?? (hopefully draft) / Ramage

Irving (should be playing almost even minutes with Karlsson as a 1a, 1b tandem)

Karlsson (should be playing almost even minutes with Irving as a 1a, 1b tandem)

Overall this brings in youth and talent at a reasonable price. We stay under the cap, slowly bring up prospects who are ready but keep veterans around to help their transition. Allow prospects to develop in time and get the most out of them.

This is along the lines of what I would do over the next 4 years.

[Crzydrvr]

???-Backlund-Iginla

???-???-???

Glencross-Horak-???

???-???-???

Bouwmeester-Giordano

???-???

???-???

???-???

Out of our current roster, these guys are the only players I can see being back for sure in 3 years. And to all you out there saying Iginla should be included in the list of players leaving, well, screw you. If iggy wants to stay here then I say welcome back to another year as captain; he doesnt leave unless he himself wants to leave.

two scenarios are possible. scenario one is that we finish off this season strong and our young players prove they are nhl caliber. if the flames are playoff bound then next season becomes something like (assuming that this season is year 1):

year 2:

tanguay-backlund-iginla

bartschi-jokinen-stempniak/bourque

glencross-horak-moss

jackman-stajan-nemisz

kostopoulos

bouwmeester-butler

giordano-???

???-babchuk

carson

kiprusoff-karlsson

with the only blanks in the defense, we'd be able to choose from either resigning sarich and calling up a prospect from the pool of brodie, breen, negrin, mikkelson, or even leach, ramage, etc. depending on who proves worthy of a spot. the only guy moved out who is still under contract is one of bourque or stempniak, who both perform top 6 scorer's roles.

year 3(assuming of course that bartschi steps up and reinhart lights up the minor leagues the year before):

bartschi-backlund-iginla

tanguay-horak-nemisz

glencross-reinhart-moss

???-???-jackman/kostopoulos

jackman/kostopoulos

bouwmeester-butler

giordano-brodie(???)

breen-???

???

kiprusoff-???

blanks on the defense can go to whoever steps up (including any players we havent drafted yet) and the goalie spot would be filled by either karlsson again or irving. we could rely on free agents to fill the center hole up front while having a prospect fill the extra slots (bouma, ferland, holland, patterson, howse). we'd still be left with at least 12 players from this season's squad while being significantly younger.

players that have been moved:

morrison

bourque

stempniak

hannan

sarich

babchuk

jokinen

carson

stajan

hagman

scenario 2 would be we tank this season (whether by purpose or accident) and we blow it up and get some immediate returns on some players(the odds of being able to throw everything out is impossible).

year 2:

???*-backlund-iginla

bartschi-horak/reinhart-???

glencross-horak/reinhart-nemisz

bouma-???-???

kostopoulos/jackman

bouwmeester-???

giordano-???

butler-brodie

???

irving/karlsson

lots more holes to be filled. horak and reinhart would be interchangeable along the middle 2 lines while the opened forward slots would be acquired through free agency or callup. our first round pick would make the team (we tanked, so its a high pick) and depending on who it is we would be able to slot him with space to spare on our top 6 or our top 4 (if its a defenseman).

year 3:

bartschi-backlund-???*

???-horak/reinhart-iginla

glencross-horak/reinhart-nemisz

bouma-???-howse

kostopoulos/jackman

bouwmeester-???

giordano-brodie

breen-???

???

irving/karlsson

by this time, ramage, leach and wotherspoon would be ready to fight for a spot, so theyll likely grab some time in the top 6. our first rounder would continue to be in a top 4/top 6 position (provided he doesnt flame out) and our big signing the previous year would be matched alongside backlund and bartschi. kipper gets moved out by this point. a more radical change, with the idea that there will be some growing pains for the first season at least.

players who left:

tanguay

jokinen

bourque

stempniak

moss

morrison

hagman

sarich

hannan

butler

babchuk

kiprusoff

the actual amount of players moved will be roughly the same, but the process is quite different.

[tachaudh]

In three years, the Flames have the three top players in the league - Turris, Backlund, and Baertschi.

[ConnorFutureGM]

Parise - Turris - Iggy

Tangs - Backlund - Baertshi

GlenX - Horak / Jokinen - Byron

X - Horak / Jokinen - X

Bouwmeester Butler

Giordano - Wideman

Brodie - Smith - Carson - Mikkelson ????

Karlsson - (For the first time since Kipper arrived I see a potential replacement and maybe it is just because of his huge game against Buffalo last night but I could see Karlsson taking the #1 spot from Kipper)

Irving

___________

Do the Flames score Turris as a steal deal before Dec 1 from Phx? If so this is what I see.

Obviously my big adds are Zach Parise and Dennis Wideman both of which are signed this off-season as part of the new Flames core for the next several years with long term big dollar contracts.

4th line is really your tough energy line. Every year you can rejig it on the fly and get your Jackmans, Prusts, Nystroms if your young players aren't ready OR your young prospects earn the spot in there, the important thing is you don't overpay on market and you put the right prospects there.

Joker - many are probably really surprised to see this but I see Joker here at the age of 34-35 as a mentor as well and rotating between the 3rd and 4th line constantly as the Flames develop players in. This happens ONLY if Joker takes a decent hometown discount. Depth at C is important and Joker can play his role in this and finish his career in Calgary and contribute. He has massively adjusted his game to responsible two-way play which is key when playing with two young doey eyed rookies. Therefore I give him his NMC but he takes a significant discount for it. His constant and consistent work ethic is an excellent example to young players.

Iggy - Again only at a significant discount resigning, larger scale Joker thing going on here - mentor - leader. Which I think will happen. (Got to be careful with those 35+ contracts though - absolutely can NOT overpay Iggy at this point)

Like 4th line - bottom pairing D is the area to tweak - I don't like what I see down there at the moment but whatever. I can't predict it but Brodie should be in there at least and the 6th spot, we'll see...

P.S. and Jbo resigns the next season in 2014/15 at a huge discount - he owes the team and the organization that based on the overpay and millions of dollars extra he has got over the course of his previous contract.

IMO, it would be ideal for the Flames to be younger than the team you suggested. Your Flames team will be an older NHL and get to be the oldest fast.

[ConnorFutureGM]

1st year 2011 2012

trade jokinen ortio and byron for turris

trade bourque hagman babchuk hannan for brassard heusillious and rusell

trade sarich stajan and jackman for eller

trade stempniak tk for ennis

tanguay backlund iginla

glencross turris heusillious

ennis brassard eller

bmo horak moss

bouwmeester butler

giordano rusell

carson smith

next year 2012 2013

heusillious and bmo retire as a flame

we sign green and liles

tanguay backlund iginla

glencross turris ennis

baertshi brassard eller

moss horak bouma/nemisz

bouwmeester liles

giordano green

rusell butler

next year 2013 2014

trade eller for a 2nd and 4th

trade rusell for a 2nd and 5th

tanguay backlund iginla

glencross turris baertshi

ennis brassard nemisz

bouma horak moss

bouwmeester liles

giordano green

butler brodie

so this is what i think that might happen in 3 years

your trades are mostly reasonable but IMO, a team doesn't want Turris and Brassard as their #2 and #3 centres respectively. They are both soft and not solid defensively. Also, you might need more toughness on the back end.

First of all, Turris is not worth Jokinen, Ortio and Byron. A former #1 centre (currently playing top line as well and putting up good numbers) on a great contract, + a projected 2/3 centreman who is basically NHL ready and a promising young goaltender for a POTENTIAL #1 centre who isn't signed at the moment and has not put up exceptional numbers in the NHL yet and may be another bust resulting in another #2 centre at best is far overpayment in my mind. Also this trade would put Phoenix right at the contract limit and right now they have Hanzal, Langkow, Gordon as their 1/2/3 and then O'Sullivan, Chipchurra, O'Reilly and Miele fighting for the #4 spot. Sending them another starting centre who will be UFA after the season and another centre prospect is not what Phoenix would be looking for.

Not sure why Calgary makes the Columbus trade. Huselius only played 39 games last season and has yet to play this season. Sure he is a solid player when healthy but health is an issue. He also will not retire after this season as he is only 32. He will be looking to play at least 3-4 more seasons. Russell is another left handed shot on D. We have too many Left handed D men, moving Babchuk who is better statistically than Russell, they play the same minutes, Babs has a better +/- and more points, and Babs is a right handed shot makes no sense. Add into that trade one of our best and most experienced shutdown type defencemen and a proven #2 sniper and what do we really get in return? a 2/3 centre along the same lines as Horak, Byron etc., A bottom pair left handed D man who moves the puck better than Butler, Carson, Sarich etc, but still a bottom pair Left handed D and a potential top 6 winger if he can be healthy to stick around. Sorry way too lopsided with not enough return.

Eller could end up being a solid player. I won't say that he won't be. But looking at all of his stats I don't see superstar there. He is another Byron, Horak, Reinhart, Backlund and not even a Backlund. I could see Montreal moving Eller because they already have Plekanec, Desharnais, Gomez etc. and I can see why they would want to add the size and grit of Jackman. I could also see the need for Sarich for injury replacement. However why do they need Stajan? This doesn't even take into account that Montreal does not have the cap space to do this trade. Even moving Eller, they only have about 2.5 million in cap space which is not enough for either Stajan or Sarich let alone both PLUS jackman.

Why do you think Buffalo would do Ennis for Stempniak and Kostopolous? Ennis scored 20 goals and 49 points as a 21/22 year old last season. Buffalo also doesn't have the cap space to do this move. They are up against the cap and Kostopolous alone makes more than Ennis let alone add the 1 million for Stempniak.

Since your trades don't work for this season, I won't even comment on the rest of your moves.

Here is what I would do, and I am actually going 4 years, not 3 (this is based on what I think would work). After this up-comming summer, no moves, just inserting prospects.

2011 / 2012

To Boston:

Bourque,

Hagman,

Brodie,

2012 3rd round pick,

2013 Conditional pick

To Calgary

Krejci

Boychuck

Calgary gets a right handed D man who can play top 4 and a #1 centre. Both of whom are UFA after the season.

Boston gets 2 2nd line wings with multiple 20+ goal seasons, a solid D prospect and 2 draft picks.

To Ottawa

Stajan, Moss, Smith

To Calgary

Konopka

2012 2nd round pick

2013 Conditional pick

Calgary gets a proper 4th line centre and replaces some draft picks. Ottawa gets a #2 centre with history of success in the east. A solid top 9 wing who can also play centre if needed with a 20+ goal season and 2 30+ point seasons and a defensive prospect who though not stellar is doing fine currently in the NHL. With 3 Dmen at 33, 34, 37 Ottawa could use a young defensive prospect who is gaining experience. Stajan's contract for next year is also positive for teams who don't want to spend much but still have cap space as his actual dollars are lower than his cap hit.

Tanguay / Krejci / Iginla (Finally that #1 centre)

Glencross / Jokinen / Backlund (2 centres on a line for draws, Jokinen and Glencross already click. Backlundshould fit well)

Morrison / Horak / Stempniak (2 Vets with skill can really help Horak who is already playing very well)

Kostopolous / Konopka / Jackman (Solid 4th line for checking with plenty of grit and effort)

Letourneau-Leblond (in my opinion he is useless but he is on contract so whatever)

Bouwmeester / Boychuk (Left and Right D men for once, young but talented)

Giordano / Sarich (Left and Right D, gritty and willing to do what it takes)

Hannan / Babchuk (Left and Right D, Hannan can cover for Babchuk defensively)

Butler /Carson (Not willing to give up on either of these 2 just yet)

Kiprusoff (Still a #1)

Karlsson (Solid Backup, possible potential as a #1)

2012 / 2013

Flames do not re-sign Hannan, Sarich, Morrison, Kostopolous or Letourneau Leblond. Trade rights for picks if possible. (Age and necessity no longer enough value)

Flames re-sign Stempniak for 2.25 mil for 1 season (to help Horak and Nemisz)

Flames re-sign Jokinen for 3mil per season over 2 seasons with a NMC. (This keeps #2 centre with potential #1 for cheap.)

Flames re-sign Krejci for 5 mil for 3 seasons. (#1 centre)

Flames re-sign Boychuk for 2.5 mil for 3 seasons (top 4 RH D)

Flames re-sign Konopka for 800k for 2 seasons (4th line centre to flip with Bouma)

Flames re-sign Jackman for 750k for 2 seasons (Solid 4th liner, can fight, cheap, still young, works hard)

Flames sign UFA Wideman for 5 mil for 3 seasons (Top 4 RH D)

Flames bring up

Nemisz (solid 3rd line wing, possible 2nd line. Think Moss with better hands)

Bancks (young 4th line energy grinder for LW)

Bouma (4th line centre, swaps with Konopka)

Tanguay / Krejci / Iginla (Solid top line, very talented, should have developed chemistry)

Glencross / Jokinen / Backlund (Solid second line, talented, should have developed chemistry)

Stempniak / Horak / Nemisz (Stempniak helps the youngsters, Nemisz should be ready)

Bancks / Konopka / Jackman (Tons of energy and grit. Bancks brings more youth to the line)

Bouma (Starts his NHL level experience)

Bouwmeester / Wideman (Left and Right D. Very skilled, young, puck moving line without the Defensive liabilities)

Giordano / Boychuk (Left and R D. Gritty Giordano and slightly more skilled Boychuk. Both still young ish)

Butler / Babchuk (last year on both their contracts, playing for their jobs)

Carson (Last year of contract, likely won't be retained after)

Kiprusoff

Karlsson

2013 / 2014

Flames do not re-sign Butler, Stempniak, Babchuk, Carson. Trade rights for picks if possible. (Just not needed at this time)

Flames re-sign Karlsson. (Solid Backup, don't stunt Irving by playing low minutes)

Flames bring up Baertschi (Should be ready for 2nd line duties)

Wotherspoon (Should hopefully be ready)

Ramage (Should hopefully be ready)

(trade for a right hand D-man if Ramage isn't ready, use Breen instead of Wotherspoon if he isn't ready)

Tanguay / Krejci / Iginla (still a solid line)

Baertschi / Jokinen / Backlund (Baertschi takes over the left side giving extra skill)

Glencross / Horak / Nemisz (Glencross still has skill but Baertschi has more. High energy line with solid skill)

Bancks / Konopka / Jackman (Solid 4th line, lots of Grit)

Bouma

Bouwmeester / Wideman (Left and Right Top 2 D)

Giordano / Boychuk (left and right top 4 D)

Wotherspoon / Ramage (talented young D ready to start their experience)

Kiprusoff (last year of his contract, should be playing almost even minutes with Karlsson as a 1a, 1b tandem)

Karlsson (should be playing almost even minutes with Kiprusoff as a 1a, 1b tandem)

2014 / 2015

Flames don't re-sign Kiprusoff, Bouwmeester, Jokinen or Jackman. Trade rights for picks or prospects if possible.

Flames bring up Irving.

Flames fill #1 RW, #4 RW and #3 RD with trade, UFA or prospect.

Baertschi / Krejci / ?? (hopefully draft) (Let Baertschi take over the top line duties. Youth starts to go)

Tanguay / Backlund / Iginla (Tanguay and Iginla aging, time to downshift to the second line)

Glencross / Horak / Nemisz

Bancks / Bouma / ?? (hopefully draft) (Bouma should be ready for full top 4th line)

Giordano / Wideman

Wotherspoon / Boychuk

?? (hopefully draft) / Ramage

Irving (should be playing almost even minutes with Karlsson as a 1a, 1b tandem)

Karlsson (should be playing almost even minutes with Irving as a 1a, 1b tandem)

Overall this brings in youth and talent at a reasonable price. We stay under the cap, slowly bring up prospects who are ready but keep veterans around to help their transition. Allow prospects to develop in time and get the most out of them.

This is along the lines of what I would do over the next 4 years.

Why does Boston and Ottawa do those trades? Boston's #1 centre is Krejci and Ottawa is rebuilding and they want to keep their picks, they don't want to trade for an over priced contract.

???-Backlund-Iginla

???-???-???

Glencross-Horak-???

???-???-???

Bouwmeester-Giordano

???-???

???-???

???-???

Out of our current roster, these guys are the only players I can see being back for sure in 3 years. And to all you out there saying Iginla should be included in the list of players leaving, well, screw you. If iggy wants to stay here then I say welcome back to another year as captain; he doesnt leave unless he himself wants to leave.

two scenarios are possible. scenario one is that we finish off this season strong and our young players prove they are nhl caliber. if the flames are playoff bound then next season becomes something like (assuming that this season is year 1):

year 2:

tanguay-backlund-iginla

bartschi-jokinen-stempniak/bourque

glencross-horak-moss

jackman-stajan-nemisz

kostopoulos

bouwmeester-butler

giordano-???

???-babchuk

carson

kiprusoff-karlsson

with the only blanks in the defense, we'd be able to choose from either resigning sarich and calling up a prospect from the pool of brodie, breen, negrin, mikkelson, or even leach, ramage, etc. depending on who proves worthy of a spot. the only guy moved out who is still under contract is one of bourque or stempniak, who both perform top 6 scorer's roles.

year 3(assuming of course that bartschi steps up and reinhart lights up the minor leagues the year before):

bartschi-backlund-iginla

tanguay-horak-nemisz

glencross-reinhart-moss

???-???-jackman/kostopoulos

jackman/kostopoulos

bouwmeester-butler

giordano-brodie(???)

breen-???

???

kiprusoff-???

blanks on the defense can go to whoever steps up (including any players we havent drafted yet) and the goalie spot would be filled by either karlsson again or irving. we could rely on free agents to fill the center hole up front while having a prospect fill the extra slots (bouma, ferland, holland, patterson, howse). we'd still be left with at least 12 players from this season's squad while being significantly younger.

players that have been moved:

morrison

bourque

stempniak

hannan

sarich

babchuk

jokinen

carson

stajan

hagman

scenario 2 would be we tank this season (whether by purpose or accident) and we blow it up and get some immediate returns on some players(the odds of being able to throw everything out is impossible).

year 2:

???*-backlund-iginla

bartschi-horak/reinhart-???

glencross-horak/reinhart-nemisz

bouma-???-???

kostopoulos/jackman

bouwmeester-???

giordano-???

butler-brodie

???

irving/karlsson

lots more holes to be filled. horak and reinhart would be interchangeable along the middle 2 lines while the opened forward slots would be acquired through free agency or callup. our first round pick would make the team (we tanked, so its a high pick) and depending on who it is we would be able to slot him with space to spare on our top 6 or our top 4 (if its a defenseman).

year 3:

bartschi-backlund-???*

???-horak/reinhart-iginla

glencross-horak/reinhart-nemisz

bouma-???-howse

kostopoulos/jackman

bouwmeester-???

giordano-brodie

breen-???

???

irving/karlsson

by this time, ramage, leach and wotherspoon would be ready to fight for a spot, so theyll likely grab some time in the top 6. our first rounder would continue to be in a top 4/top 6 position (provided he doesnt flame out) and our big signing the previous year would be matched alongside backlund and bartschi. kipper gets moved out by this point. a more radical change, with the idea that there will be some growing pains for the first season at least.

players who left:

tanguay

jokinen

bourque

stempniak

moss

morrison

hagman

sarich

hannan

butler

babchuk

kiprusoff

the actual amount of players moved will be roughly the same, but the process is quite different.

Unless the Flames completely colapse this season, IMO it is best to develop prospects (Baertschi) in lesser leagues before throwing them into the NHL where they might not get adequate ice time to develop. Also, is Backlund 1st line centre quality?

[MisterJoji]

Unless the Flames completely colapse this season, IMO it is best to develop prospects (Baertschi) in lesser leagues before throwing them into the NHL where they might not get adequate ice time to develop. Also, is Backlund 1st line centre quality?

Uggggh this guy again. Baertschi is not eligible to be recalled since he started the season in the WHL. Also, if

he didn't play for the Flames at the beginning of the year, the only other option is going back to junior, he is not AHL eligible. Backlund ended the season last year looking very good with Iggy and Tangs. Due to his injury it'll likely he'll have a bit of a slow start when he comes back but he definitely has 1st line center skill, if Sutter doesn't try and restrain him too much.

[ConnorFutureGM]

IMO, the best way to build a successful hockey team is down the middle. First centres then defence. Wingers and goalies after.

It's very hard to determine 3 years from now because player performance varies so much from year to year, especially for younger players.

IMO, the first thing the Flames should do is insulate the young players they already have by surrounding them with veterans and limit their pressure to perform. That means Backlund 3rd line and Horak 4th line. Make them work hard to move up the depth charts.

--

--

-Backlund-

-Horak-

EXTRA:

-

-

-

EXTRA:

The next thing the Flames need to do is get rid of some dead weight. They'll have to take dead weight to get rid of dead weight be maybe a trade can stimulate the dead weight.

Stajan, Hagman FOR Gomez (pending waiving of NTCs which should go ahead since Gomez can only list 3 teams he doesn't want to go to and Stajan would probably welcome a move back to the east).

-Gomez-

--

-Backlund-

-Horak-

EXTRA:

-

-

-

EXTRA:

Insert the rest of the forwards:

Tanguay-Gomez-Iginla

Glencross-Jokinen-Moss

Bourque-Backlund-Stempniak

Morrison-Horak-Kostopoulos

EXTRA:Jackman,Leblond

The once strong defence of the Flames is lacking. The ideal pick up would be a puck moving right hand shot top pairing defenceman. Those are few and far between but with a stronger defence it would make other parts of the team more expendible.

Smith, Kiprusoff FOR Kubina, Roloson, 1st

Bouwmeester-Kubina

Giordano-Hannan

Butler-Babchuk

EXTRA:Sarich

Roloson

Karlsson

- Karlsson and Roloson rotate and the Flames play who's hot.

Is this a playoff team?

Tanguay-Gomez-Iginla

Glencross-Jokinen-Moss

Bourque-Backlund-Stempniak

Morrison-Horak-Kostopoulos

EXTRA:Jackman,Leblond

Bouwmeester-Kubina

Giordano-Hannan

Butler-Babchuk

EXTRA:Sarich

Roloson

Karlsson

Maybe, maybe not.

The team in the off season:

Tanguay-Gomez-Iginla

Glencross--

Bourque-Backlund-

-Horak-

EXTRA:

Bouwmeester-

Giordano-

Butler-Babchuk

EXTRA:

Karlsson

IMO, the most important positions to fill will be the 2nd line centre and the right defence. The ideal centre would be a two way centre who can play 2nd or 3rd line minutes depending on how the younger centres are progressing. IMO, you don't want to go for the best players come free agency or you will almost certainly be overpaying.

Stoll would be ideal but with history that probably wouldn't work. Brodziak is still young at 27, has size,a right handed shot, defensive reliability and can move up and down the depth chart.

Tanguay-Gomez-Iginla

Glencross-Brodziak-

Bourque-Backlund-

-Horak-

EXTRA:

Bouwmeester-

Giordano-

Butler-Babchuk

EXTRA:

I think the defencemen that the Flames should sign are Gilroy and Boychuk.

Tanguay-Gomez-Iginla

Glencross-Brodziak-

Bourque-Backlund-

-Horak-

EXTRA:

Bouwmeester-Gilroy

Giordano-Boychuk

Butler-Babchuk

EXTRA:

A goalie to mentor Karlsson is imortant. He should still be competeing for the starter job at this time. Niitymaki should suffice.

The Flames should leave and extra wing position on each side open and a defensive spot for camp competition. That leaves two right wing positions and two depth forward positions.

Sign Penner to a one year deal, he needs to rebound and will come cheap. Tootoo is a good winger for the 3rd or 4th line. Carcillo is proving he's more verstile in Chicago. Wellwood is a guy who can move up or down the lineup if needed.

Tanguay-Gomez-Iginla

Glencross-Brodziak-Penner

Bourque-Backlund-(CAMP COMPETITION SPOT)

(CAMP COMPETITION SPOT)-Horak-Tootoo

EXTRA:Carcillo,Wellwool

Bouwmeester-Gilroy

Giordano-Boychuk

Butler-Babchuk

EXTRA:(CAMP COMPETITION SPOT)

Will this team make the playoffs? Maybe, maybe not but it's giving time for the cupboards to fill again with prospects while icing a competitive team.

[wally31]

IMO, the best way to build a successful hockey team is down the middle. First centres then defence. Wingers and goalies after.

It's very hard to determine 3 years from now because player performance varies so much from year to year, especially for younger players.

IMO, the first thing the Flames should do is insulate the young players they already have by surrounding them with veterans and limit their pressure to perform. That means Backlund 3rd line and Horak 4th line. Make them work hard to move up the depth charts.

--

--

-Backlund-

-Horak-

EXTRA:

-

-

-

EXTRA:

The next thing the Flames need to do is get rid of some dead weight. They'll have to take dead weight to get rid of dead weight be maybe a trade can stimulate the dead weight.

Stajan, Hagman FOR Gomez (pending waiving of NTCs which should go ahead since Gomez can only list 3 teams he doesn't want to go to and Stajan would probably welcome a move back to the east).

-Gomez-

--

-Backlund-

-Horak-

EXTRA:

-

-

-

EXTRA:

Insert the rest of the forwards:

Tanguay-Gomez-Iginla

Glencross-Jokinen-Moss

Bourque-Backlund-Stempniak

Morrison-Horak-Kostopoulos

EXTRA:Jackman,Leblond

The once strong defence of the Flames is lacking. The ideal pick up would be a puck moving right hand shot top pairing defenceman. Those are few and far between but with a stronger defence it would make other parts of the team more expendible.

Smith, Kiprusoff FOR Kubina, Roloson, 1st

Bouwmeester-Kubina

Giordano-Hannan

Butler-Babchuk

EXTRA:Sarich

Roloson

Karlsson

- Karlsson and Roloson rotate and the Flames play who's hot.

Is this a playoff team?

Tanguay-Gomez-Iginla

Glencross-Jokinen-Moss

Bourque-Backlund-Stempniak

Morrison-Horak-Kostopoulos

EXTRA:Jackman,Leblond

Bouwmeester-Kubina

Giordano-Hannan

Butler-Babchuk

EXTRA:Sarich

Roloson

Karlsson

Maybe, maybe not.

The team in the off season:

Tanguay-Gomez-Iginla

Glencross--

Bourque-Backlund-

-Horak-

EXTRA:

Bouwmeester-

Giordano-

Butler-Babchuk

EXTRA:

Karlsson

IMO, the most important positions to fill will be the 2nd line centre and the right defence. The ideal centre would be a two way centre who can play 2nd or 3rd line minutes depending on how the younger centres are progressing. IMO, you don't want to go for the best players come free agency or you will almost certainly be overpaying.

Stoll would be ideal but with history that probably wouldn't work. Brodziak is still young at 27, has size,a right handed shot, defensive reliability and can move up and down the depth chart.

Tanguay-Gomez-Iginla

Glencross-Brodziak-

Bourque-Backlund-

-Horak-

EXTRA:

Bouwmeester-

Giordano-

Butler-Babchuk

EXTRA:

I think the defencemen that the Flames should sign are Gilroy and Boychuk.

Tanguay-Gomez-Iginla

Glencross-Brodziak-

Bourque-Backlund-

-Horak-

EXTRA:

Bouwmeester-Gilroy

Giordano-Boychuk

Butler-Babchuk

EXTRA:

A goalie to mentor Karlsson is imortant. He should still be competeing for the starter job at this time. Niitymaki should suffice.

The Flames should leave and extra wing position on each side open and a defensive spot for camp competition. That leaves two right wing positions and two depth forward positions.

Sign Penner to a one year deal, he needs to rebound and will come cheap. Tootoo is a good winger for the 3rd or 4th line. Carcillo is proving he's more verstile in Chicago. Wellwood is a guy who can move up or down the lineup if needed.

Tanguay-Gomez-Iginla

Glencross-Brodziak-Penner

Bourque-Backlund-(CAMP COMPETITION SPOT)

(CAMP COMPETITION SPOT)-Horak-Tootoo

EXTRA:Carcillo,Wellwool

Bouwmeester-Gilroy

Giordano-Boychuk

Butler-Babchuk

EXTRA:(CAMP COMPETITION SPOT)

Will this team make the playoffs? Maybe, maybe not but it's giving time for the cupboards to fill again with prospects while icing a competitive team.

Thank God your not the GM! Hagmans contract expires at the end of this year, Gomez's contract doesn't... So we would strap ourselves with an extra 3 million... great!

No Gomez No Penner

[ConnorFutureGM]

Thank God your not the GM! Hagmans contract expires at the end of this year, Gomez's contract doesn't... So we would strap ourselves with an extra 3 million... great!

No Gomez No Penner

If the Flames want to rid themselves of Stajan, they're going to have to take a bad contract back.

Penner is a big, skilled forward who is reliable defensively and can play on either wing. A one year deal for a player who wants to prove himself is a safe gamble.

[geos]

If the Flames want to rid themselves of Stajan, they're going to have to take a bad contract back.

Rather Stajan than Gomez quite honestly.

[Demonous_Xodus]

If the Flames want to rid themselves of Stajan, they're going to have to take a bad contract back.

Penner is a big, skilled forward who is reliable defensively and can play on either wing. A one year deal for a player who wants to prove himself is a safe gamble.

Sorry sir, I'm going to disagree with everything you've said. The best way (and the way most successful teams have been built) are from goalie - defense - offense. That's a given.

Just look at the Flyers. No matter how impressive your offensive core is, if you don't have a great goaltender, you aren't going to win most games.

In comparison, take the Preds. Their offensive core is quite bottom 10. However, Rinne/Defense have made them win games.

I truly believe that if you can get yourself a great goalie, and establish a good defensive unit, you can have a bad offensive core (much like the Preds) and still win hockey games. However, there aren't very many examples of "pure offense" winning games. The Flyers with Bryz are facing that, and have been facing that for years.

Buffalo has built from its goaltending (Miller), so have Boston (Thomas), New Jersey (Brodeur), The Rangers (Lundqvist), Carolina (Ward).

Anaheim back in 2007 (Built from Gigiuere).

[DL44]

Just for a fun reference point..

The Flames opening day roster 3 yrs ago (boxscore):

Cammalleri - Conroy - Iginla

Bourque - Langkow - Bertuzzi

Glencross - Lombardi - Boyd

Roy - Primeau - Moss

Phaneuf, Gio, Aucoin, Sarich, Vandermeer, Pardy

Kipper / (Backup of the yr)

12 of the 18 skaters are no longer around...

I would say in 3 yrs from now, you'll be looking at a much greater turnover than even that!

[DL44]

This is true but given the circumstances in Jersey this year they won't be resigning Parise with that monster Kovie-like contract

it's not the Kovy deal that would freeze Praise out of NJ... that's actually a reasonable $6.7 mil cap hit for their superstar player.

It would be the Elias contract - $6mil. And the ownership willing to spend.

Brodeur's $5.2mil becomes much lower. Salvador's $2.9 hit could change.

And they are actually sitting with $4 mil in space right now.

But yeah... no NBA is costing the ownership some coin and there is NO guarantee they will spend next yr.

But if they do... they could easily make him fit.

[ConnorFutureGM]

Sorry sir, I'm going to disagree with everything you've said. The best way (and the way most successful teams have been built) are from goalie - defense - offense. That's a given.

Just look at the Flyers. No matter how impressive your offensive core is, if you don't have a great goaltender, you aren't going to win most games.

In comparison, take the Preds. Their offensive core is quite bottom 10. However, Rinne/Defense have made them win games.

I truly believe that if you can get yourself a great goalie, and establish a good defensive unit, you can have a bad offensive core (much like the Preds) and still win hockey games. However, there aren't very many examples of "pure offense" winning games. The Flyers with Bryz are facing that, and have been facing that for years.

Buffalo has built from its goaltending (Miller), so have Boston (Thomas), New Jersey (Brodeur), The Rangers (Lundqvist), Carolina (Ward).

Anaheim back in 2007 (Built from Gigiuere).

- Pittsburgh is a team based on depth at centre who has won.

- The deepest part of Chicago is at centre.

- Boston is so deep at centre that they have career centres playing the wing.

The way you state as the best way to build a team is Burke style which has not been coming to fruition in Toronto.

Rather Stajan than Gomez quite honestly.

Lecalvier is also an option.