The_Don Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 2+6+6 (1st line A) 6+6+2 (1st line 2+3+2 (3rd line) 4 (4th line average 800k including extras) 5+6 (1st pairing) 3+3 (2nd pairing) 3 (3rd pairing plus extra) 3 (starting goalie) 1 (backup) That's 63 mil leaving a mil + under this year's cap. If the cap goes down so do player salaries. I'm not that worried about the Oilers being able to fill their roster while paying the star players post ELC. How are the Flames holding up their end of the battle of Alberta? You need to AT LEAST make the playoffs to be considered contributing. Neither team is doing that. Good luck getting a SC winning goalie tandem for $4 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Come on, give your head a little shake before thinking about giving Renney one more year. He had a team that was rolling very nicely to start the year and what does he do when Hemsky returns? Mess up with the flow... okay the third line sucked monkey balls and eventually the team would get figured out... especially after that Stars game... but for a team to fall apart so easily without transitioning their style of play just shows how little they've learned so far. I also see tons of defensive liability from the forwards and isn't Renney's specialty defense? But man he hasn't been effective enough to warrant another year extension. Players still don't play with their heart and they have zero emotion going into games. I want a coach to show then liability and to punish their butts when they hand out a poor effort. Even friggin MacT made them go to West Edmonton Mall to bag skate. What the heck does Renney do? Thank you for not being high on Omark. I don't think Renney can be completely blamed for the team's weird decisions. For example, players like Paajarvi and Omark being sent down as well as Hemsky getting significant time with Hall. Good luck getting a SC winning goalie tandem for $4 million. Chicago and Detroit beg to differ and give you 1 mil more for a total of 3 mil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anie8706 Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 I don't think Renney can be completely blamed for the team's weird decisions. For example, players like Paajarvi and Omark being sent down as well as Hemsky getting significant time with Hall. Chicago and Detroit beg to differ and give you 1 mil more for a total of 3 mil. Hemsky's lucky he's been playing in the top six I want him out... now... he's streaky... Omark did nothing special and MPS is the new Cogliano on being stuck at the bottom six. However MPS showed he was realllyyyy snake bitten and was afraid of getting close to the net and shot at the logo on the goalie's chest, lol. I haven't paid too much with Renney's decisions but I'm sure it's the same old same old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Hemsky's lucky he's been playing in the top six I want him out... now... he's streaky... Omark did nothing special and MPS is the new Cogliano on being stuck at the bottom six. However MPS showed he was realllyyyy snake bitten and was afraid of getting close to the net and shot at the logo on the goalie's chest, lol. I haven't paid too much with Renney's decisions but I'm sure it's the same old same old. Yeah, the Oilers better trade Hemsky but I think they should wait until the deadline. Hall-Horcoff-Hemsky are actually showing some chemistry so hopefully that boosts up his value enough to get a decent return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anie8706 Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Yeah, the Oilers better trade Hemsky but I think they should wait until the deadline. Hall-Horcoff-Hemsky are actually showing some chemistry so hopefully that boosts up his value enough to get a decent return. Chemistry??? Oh no... that can't happen... bring in the blender. Or wait... one line is sucking so change it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Don Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Chicago and Detroit beg to differ and give you 1 mil more for a total of 3 mil. Huh? I didn't say it was impossible or has never happened. I simply said "good luck". It can happen, but depending on it is foolish. Chicago was paying Huet's 5.6 when they won the cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Huh? I didn't say it was impossible or has never happened. I simply said "good luck". It can happen, but depending on it is foolish. Chicago was paying Huet's 5.6 when they won the cup. That's grasping. Huet was a non factor in Chicago's Stanley Cup win. There are teams that like to spend on goaltending taking away from skaters and then there are teams that spend less on goaltending and more on skaters. Both have proven to be able to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 2+6+6 (1st line A) 6+6+2 (1st line 2+3+2 (3rd line) 4 (4th line average 800k including extras) 5+6 (1st pairing) 3+3 (2nd pairing) 3 (3rd pairing plus extra) 3 (starting goalie) 1 (backup) That's 63 mil leaving a mil + under this year's cap. If the cap goes down so do player salaries. I'm not that worried about the Oilers being able to fill their roster while paying the star players post ELC. How are the Flames holding up their end of the battle of Alberta? You need to AT LEAST make the playoffs to be considered contributing. Neither team is doing that. & your top 2 line wingers @ 2 million a pop are? Lottery picks on EL usually get the max (3.775 this year). & do you really think the Flames haven't contributed to the BoA when they consistently beat the Oilers but the Oilers are doing their part by losing? That's some twisted logic! Winning vs. being used to losing is = if the team that tries misses the playoffs by your logic. If you consider not being in the lottery a loss it would make sense I suppose. The Flames aim for a playoff spot while those that follow the Oilers have been drooling over draft selections since that early run of wins in Edmonton ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 & your top 2 line wingers @ 2 million a pop are? Lottery picks on EL usually get the max (3.775 this year). & do you really think the Flames haven't contributed to the BoA when they consistently beat the Oilers but the Oilers are doing their part by losing? That's some twisted logic! Winning vs. being used to losing is = if the team that tries misses the playoffs by your logic. If you consider not being in the lottery a loss it would make sense I suppose. The Flames aim for a playoff spot while those that follow the Oilers have been drooling over draft selections since that early run of wins in Edmonton ended. Also grasping. Everyone (or almost everyone) knows that the Battle of Alberta and other great rivalries are in the playoffs. Teams can compete in the regular season but it's those best of 7, winner take all that really sets the stage for a war. Regular season is nothing compared to playoffs. By the way, the Flames were the were actually the last team to directly let down the battle of Alberta. In 2006 the Oilers beat Detroit and would have played the Flames if the Flames were able to win at home against the Ducks in game 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 How are the Flames holding up their end of the battle of Alberta? You need to AT LEAST make the playoffs to be considered contributing. Neither team is doing that. The Battle of Alberta is the hype that playing each other brings. There will always be a small amount of Edmonton Sports team vs Calgary Sports team and a few people that want each side to win. Local Business with branches in each city. To have a big rivalry you need both sides to contribute wins. Your side hasn't been able to contribute to your side of that rivalry very much at all so the rivalry from our end dwindles. We have contributed to Oiler losses for some time now and the rivalry end isn't only making the playoffs. Your end might have a big rivalry view of things but on our end there is little left. or maybe you are just numb now because of all the defeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crzydrvr Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Mmm, where did this Oilers/Flames thread come from, seems like I'll be able to enjoy this one....(cue evil laugh) Everyone (or almost everyone) knows that the Battle of Alberta and other great rivalries are in the playoffs. Teams can compete in the regular season but it's those best of 7, winner take all that really sets the stage for a war. Regular season is nothing compared to playoffs. By the way, the Flames were the were actually the last team to directly let down the battle of Alberta. In 2006 the Oilers beat Detroit and would have played the Flames if the Flames were able to win at home against the Ducks in game 7. Not necessarily. I remember just a few short years ago Vancouver and Edmonton played a regular season match. Edmonton was out of the playoffs and Vancouver was on the cusp (they would finish outside the playoffs). That game was chock full of intensity; you could see Edmonton wanted to play spoilers to the Canucks who were hanging on by a postseason thread at that point. I don't care whether both teams make the playoffs or not; that's a bonus. I just want to watch some great hockey. If you put out the effort to win, then everything will work its way out. If you actually fight for the ice, then the game will be that much more fun for both the players and the fans. The Flames seem to pull themselves into BoA games. The Oilers don't. And because the Oilers don't, it's lacking intensity. The Oilers go "Oh strawberry, here we go again" and fade off. The Flames go "Nice, it's on again" and proceed to pad stats. Nobody gives a strawberry because once the Flames grab a lead everyone knows the Oil will eventually crumble. And that's been how it's been for about 11 games or so. I actually want the Oilers to fight back and make it difficult. If they pushed back and actually threatened Calgary a bit, and we crumble and lose, so be it, that's our fault. I'm just pretty tired of seeing a 5-2 victory. I want to see those 3-2 games, where there were after-whistle scrums and big hits everywhere. I want the fights, I want the saves, I want the emotion. I want to have a BoA game that actually means something to the players who play it, not just in the playoffs but the regular season too. I want to see a PO-ed Iggy, a Po-ed Hall, Eberle. Feel free to push back in a game against us any day now. I'll be looking forward to it. But right now the onus is on the Oilers to do that, because if they don't want to then we as the Flames are only happy to oblige you and pile on the freebies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Also grasping. Everyone (or almost everyone) knows that the Battle of Alberta and other great rivalries are in the playoffs. Teams can compete in the regular season but it's those best of 7, winner take all that really sets the stage for a war. Regular season is nothing compared to playoffs. By the way, the Flames were the were actually the last team to directly let down the battle of Alberta. In 2006 the Oilers beat Detroit and would have played the Flames if the Flames were able to win at home against the Ducks in game 7. & if the Oilers had made the playoffs in 2007 there was a chance they could have played the Flames to represent the west. Instead the Oilers finished 12th in the west thus avoiding the playoffs & a possible meeting with the Flames. Did you see how ridiculous that sounds? Now read your own post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 The Battle of Alberta is the hype that playing each other brings. There will always be a small amount of Edmonton Sports team vs Calgary Sports team and a few people that want each side to win. Local Business with branches in each city. To have a big rivalry you need both sides to contribute wins. Your side hasn't been able to contribute to your side of that rivalry very much at all so the rivalry from our end dwindles. We have contributed to Oiler losses for some time now and the rivalry end isn't only making the playoffs. Your end might have a big rivalry view of things but on our end there is little left. or maybe you are just numb now because of all the defeat. That's big talk, too bad you can't back it up. Tell me, what have the Flames accomplished accomplished in the last couple of years? President's trophies? Division trophies? Have they made the playoffs? NO A team either misses the playoffs or doesn't. The Oilers have missed the playoffs for the last 5 years going on 6. The Flames have missed the playoffs for the last 2 years going on 3. The Flames have not went passed the 2nd round since 2004. What are you bragging about? I am the first one to admit that the Oilers suck now but the Flames aren't much better. If the one thing that is letting you hold your head up high is that the Flames are better than a bottom 5 team then maybe you should be thankful the Oilers aren't doing well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 That's big talk, too bad you can't back it up. Tell me, what have the Flames accomplished accomplished in the last couple of years? President's trophies? Division trophies? Have they made the playoffs? NO A team either misses the playoffs or doesn't. The Oilers have missed the playoffs for the last 5 years going on 6. The Flames have missed the playoffs for the last 2 years going on 3. The Flames have not went passed the 2nd round since 2004. What are you bragging about? I am the first one to admit that the Oilers suck now but the Flames aren't much better. If the one thing that is letting you hold your head up high is that the Flames are better than a bottom 5 team then maybe you should be thankful the Oilers aren't doing well. The topic is rivalries. Not who sucks worse. Check out your GDT's when you play Calgary reg season and come back and tell me that losing to the Flames doesn't sting a little bit worse than most teams. That is the rivalry and whether you are man enough to admit it, you should take your head out of the sand long enough to see it. Your team hasn't been much of a rival for a number of years because you can't beat us hardly ever let alone make the playoffs to battle us there. Time to pick it up "A Whole Bunch". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
successfulblackman Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 I think he is just venting on some Oiler Fans like Conner who is over here singing the praises of Oilers contending for the cup in a couple years. I don't mind that so much as Conner throwing in the part where he pities us ..... Right Conner.... in your dreams... The fallacy of Conners thinking: Look at any team and you usually see some changes from two years back. Rarely does a team jump from last to contending in a short time, unless you have the second coming of Gretzky and even then it takes time. Time the Oilers don't have much of. The Realities: In the Oilers case, in two years you have to start paying those #1 picks and top players(they won't be Prospects any more Conner). Starting with Hall and Eberle at the end of next season. RNH the following year. If you play the Next #1 pick next year(Oiler Fans are already calling for the Fail for Nail) you are going to have to find some money somewhere the following year. In year 3-4 from now when you are supposed to be focused on the cup run(according to Conner) your RNH will be up for big bucks too. The History: Consider this "no team can afford to pay more than 3-4 elite players".(Chicago that a lot of Oilers Fans use as "the example of doing it the right way" had to make that choice too.) If you put it all in Offense(You already have) then your Defence + Goaltending is going to suffer. 4 elite players at 6 mil per is going to take up close to 1/3 of your cap(37.32503888024883%). Insert: you need some top D to make any run and Top D takes time to mature. If you are growing all from scratch(which Oilers claim they are doing the right way now) and from within it takes a lot longer than 2 years. Good luck with that model. If the Oilers are contending for a playoff spot in 2 years I would be happy for them. In the tough west conference they have a very tough hill to climb to just accomplish that. As for the Flames: One thing you can be certain of.... Next years Flames won't look anything like this years Flames started out as and they will be improved. Not even Conners "Crystal Ball of Dreaming" can envision what the Flames will be capable of in 2 years. I am patiently awaiting the Oilers rebuild to start showing signs of improvement because "the Old Rivalry is pretty much Dead". We have been holding up our end of the rivalry, and it is long overdue for the Oilers to start keeping up theirs. dude don't hate on him he's going to be a gm some day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 & if the Oilers had made the playoffs in 2007 there was a chance they could have played the Flames to represent the west. Instead the Oilers finished 12th in the west thus avoiding the playoffs & a possible meeting with the Flames. Did you see how ridiculous that sounds? Now read your own post. Maybe I need to explain things in a more easier way for you to understand. It's Monday May 1st, 2006. Detroit was the President's trophy winner playing against the underdog 8th seed Oilers. The Oilers come from behind to win the game 4-3 and the series 4-2 to advance to the conference semi finals. The game ended roughly around 8:30 pm MST. The Flames were the division winners and 3rd seed playing the 6th seed Ducks. By the time the Oilers advanced to the 2nd round, the Flames were playing the Ducks in Anaheim and the game was tied 1-1. The Flames were also leading the series 3-2 at the time. Anaheim scores late in the third (after the Oilers victory) and wins the game to advance the game back to the Saddledome. All of Tuesday May 2nd Alberta is getting heated up with the anticipation of the Oilers and Flames renewing acquaintances in the post season. All the Flames have to do is win at home in game 7 against the underdog Ducks. What do the Flames do? They get shut out at home letting down Flames fans and Alberta on what would have been a huge series. Your situation has thousands of different variables. Mine is simple, the Flames had 2 chances to beat the Ducks and weren't able to cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 The topic is rivalries. Not who sucks worse. Check out your GDT's when you play Calgary reg season and come back and tell me that losing to the Flames doesn't sting a little bit worse than most teams. That is the rivalry and whether you are man enough to admit it, you should take your head out of the sand long enough to see it. Your team hasn't been much of a rival for a number of years because you can't beat us hardly ever let alone make the playoffs to battle us there. Time to pick it up "A Whole Bunch". The subject was, who's holding up their end of the rivalry. You claim the Flames are holding their own while the Oilers are slacking. For me, it's not the same unless the teams are battling it out for something that only one could have. You COULD make an arguement that the rivalry is to make the playoffs but the Flames STILL aren't making the playoffs even with a great number of wins coming against the Oilers. If the Oilers won more against the Flames, that would decrease the Flames chances of making the playoffs even more thus nulifying the idea that both teams are competeing for the last playoff spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Mmm, where did this Oilers/Flames thread come from, seems like I'll be able to enjoy this one....(cue evil laugh) Not necessarily. I remember just a few short years ago Vancouver and Edmonton played a regular season match. Edmonton was out of the playoffs and Vancouver was on the cusp (they would finish outside the playoffs). That game was chock full of intensity; you could see Edmonton wanted to play spoilers to the Canucks who were hanging on by a postseason thread at that point. I don't care whether both teams make the playoffs or not; that's a bonus. I just want to watch some great hockey. If you put out the effort to win, then everything will work its way out. If you actually fight for the ice, then the game will be that much more fun for both the players and the fans. The Flames seem to pull themselves into BoA games. The Oilers don't. And because the Oilers don't, it's lacking intensity. The Oilers go "Oh strawberry, here we go again" and fade off. The Flames go "Nice, it's on again" and proceed to pad stats. Nobody gives a strawberry because once the Flames grab a lead everyone knows the Oil will eventually crumble. And that's been how it's been for about 11 games or so. I actually want the Oilers to fight back and make it difficult. If they pushed back and actually threatened Calgary a bit, and we crumble and lose, so be it, that's our fault. I'm just pretty tired of seeing a 5-2 victory. I want to see those 3-2 games, where there were after-whistle scrums and big hits everywhere. I want the fights, I want the saves, I want the emotion. I want to have a BoA game that actually means something to the players who play it, not just in the playoffs but the regular season too. I want to see a PO-ed Iggy, a Po-ed Hall, Eberle. Feel free to push back in a game against us any day now. I'll be looking forward to it. But right now the onus is on the Oilers to do that, because if they don't want to then we as the Flames are only happy to oblige you and pile on the freebies. Ok, I see where you're coming from. This is just a theory but.. I don't know if the Flames are like this but the Oilers are notorious for this. They play the great teams great and the lesser than great teams terrible. The Oilers may not rise for the Battle of Alberta because they don't get pumped up by the challenge of playing the Flames. I know how this sounds. Another point is the Flames match up well against a team like the Oilers. The Oilers have young forwards and defence when the usual defencemen are injured. The Flames are a veteran team. They have more patience while the Oilers will get frustrated and break down earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 The subject was, who's holding up their end of the rivalry. You claim the Flames are holding their own while the Oilers are slacking. For me, it's not the same unless the teams are battling it out for something that only one could have. You COULD make an arguement that the rivalry is to make the playoffs but the Flames STILL aren't making the playoffs even with a great number of wins coming against the Oilers. If the Oilers won more against the Flames, that would decrease the Flames chances of making the playoffs even more thus nulifying the idea that both teams are competeing for the last playoff spot. I work the patch in Northern Alberta just about every winter. Almost every rig has at least one Oiler Crew on it. Been that way for most of the time I worked in the patch(since 1979). There has been a rivalry between our teams that extends to every single regular season game and to some extent preseason too. I get the bets every game I am out there and when we play, I collect the cash. I see the Oiler Fans having to take the humility of each defeat and it eats away at them. Sure making the playoffs and meeting each other in postseason would up the stakes of the Flames - Oiler rivalry but as of right now the Oilers are unable to to keep their end of the rivalry for their fans. If you think it is something that only happens when both teams make the playoffs and play each other you are sadly mistaken and or blind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 I work the patch in Northern Alberta just about every winter. Almost every rig has at least one Oiler Crew on it. Been that way for most of the time I worked in the patch(since 1979). There has been a rivalry between our teams that extends to every single regular season game and to some extent preseason too. I get the bets every game I am out there and when we play, I collect the cash. I see the Oiler Fans having to take the humility of each defeat and it eats away at them. Sure making the playoffs and meeting each other in postseason would up the stakes of the Flames - Oiler rivalry but as of right now the Oilers are unable to to keep their end of the rivalry for their fans. If you think it is something that only happens when both teams make the playoffs and play each other you are sadly mistaken and or blind. If the Flames and Oilers are battling it out for bragging and betting amongst friends then yes, the Flames have had the lion's share of wins letting down Oiler fans. IMO, a good rivalry has to have higher stakes than bragging rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamesfan1010 Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 the flames have won something like 16 of the last 17 against the oil and the last 11. It doesnt really matter what your reason for this is the flames are the better team even if the oilers arent "motivated" to play the flames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 If the Flames and Oilers are battling it out for bragging and betting amongst friends then yes, the Flames have had the lion's share of wins letting down Oiler fans. IMO, a good rivalry has to have higher stakes than bragging rights. See now that was not so hard was it? Now you can let those thoughts stew around a bit, fester a bit more, and hope your team can fight back a bit and make this rivalry what it should be. It is win - win for everybody if the Oilers can muster something. Hell send out some goons for a game, you must have one or two in your system that the Oilers can send out to try and take a piece out of the Flames. That alone would bump up the Rivalry meter 10 fold no matter what the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 dude don't hate on him he's going to be a gm some day I'm starting to wonder if he means it to stand for General Manager or something else . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 See now that was not so hard was it? Now you can let those thoughts stew around a bit, fester a bit more, and hope your team can fight back a bit and make this rivalry what it should be. It is win - win for everybody if the Oilers can muster something. Hell send out some goons for a game, you must have one or two in your system that the Oilers can send out to try and take a piece out of the Flames. That alone would bump up the Rivalry meter 10 fold no matter what the outcome. I was hoping Feaster was going to finally use his brain and see that the Flames are going nowhere and rebuild. The Flames then could have drafted Yakupov. Two Alberta teams on the rise with young stars is a lot more interesting than a bad team on the rise and a mediocre team refusing to admit they're going nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crzydrvr Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 I was hoping Feaster was going to finally use his brain and see that the Flames are going nowhere and rebuild. The Flames then could have drafted Yakupov. Two Alberta teams on the rise with young stars is a lot more interesting than a bad team on the rise and a mediocre team refusing to admit they're going nowhere. What bad team on the rise? You mean the Flames? Cause it sure as hell isn't the Oilers. Not yet, anyways. You seem to be very opinionated which seems to be pushing back your ability to take a non-judgmental look at Calgary. I have an opinion too, I prefer we don't follow the Oilers route, because it doesn't look like it'll pay off for at least another 2 years. Sure they have a bright future, but whether or not it ever comes to fruition is a whole other matter. Potential means nothing if you can never achieve it. And besides, isn't it more interesting this way? One team blowing it up and another reloading. A contrast of methods, but both look to be potential ways to rebuild. A battle of styles, a battle of GMs, a battle of opinions. A competitive environment is much preferable IMO than an environment where "hope" is the only thing that's selling tickets. In a sense we're selling "hope" as well, but in a much different manner. People want to pay for a competitive team, and being a poor student I can only understand that outlook when money is tight. We are rebuilding, in about 2 years you won't recognise this team anymore. We just choose to do it in a different method. Both tanking and reloading have success stories. Tanking has Chicago, Washington and Pittsburgh, reloading has Philadelphia, the Rangers, New Jersey, Vancouver. Both also have failures. Tanking has the Islanders, Florida, and the current edition of the Oilers. Reloading failures include Montreal, Buffalo, Carolina, and Columbus. Could we both faceplant? Sure. Could we both succeed eventually? Certainly. However, the topic being discussed is the BoA, not the futures of both squads. And right now Edmonton is not holding up to par. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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