Oilers

[Crzydrvr]

You're a draft guy, did you see Feaster's drafting record when he was in Tampa? The only player that actually is a star is Stamkos who was a consensus #1. After that Feaster has a horrible drafting record from 1999 - 2007. The only two names that he drafted that I recognize is Blair Jones and Jay Rosehill. Check it out:

Link to Feaster's picks from 1999 to 2008

Obviously Feaster probably doesn't run the draft but he is in charge of hiring people that do.

And this is relevant to my point....how?

Jay Feaster relies on what he is working with. The scouts in Tampa are not the scouts in Calgary. Who knows, maybe Calgary's scouts are better simply because they are based in Canada (and relatively close to the border so not far from the US either) and have numerous advantages in terms of revenue, proximity to teams....

I honestly don't care how bad his scouting was back in the day. What matters is how he is doing for the Calgary Flames, not the Tampa Bay Lightning. I feel he's been doing a good job with what he's been given. There's no point in going over the past if it isn't relevant to the now. It'd be another matter if he made those failed picks, but he didn't.

[ConnorFutureGM]

ConnorFuture whatever your called, you really are a piece of work, ive read your posts all million of them in the Flames boards and many more in the Oilers boards, your big ego gets in the way of reason all the time, why dont you leave the trolling to others, you almost had my respect in here and the Oilers boards but you really are tiresome.

You say Oilers are on the way up and the Flames are on the way down,,, hmmm lets think about that one,, well,, The Oilers can go only go one direction,, and hopefully that is up, which they will do considering all the great draft picks over the past five years,, well I guess you know direction well..

The Flames are going down?? OK, you could be right but im trying to understand how you can determine that when the Flames dont even have a coach right now to base your reasons. The Flames are going through the same humble rebuild as the Oilers, maybe in a different platform worse or better, but how can you tell yet without a coach and being able to put a value on the younger newcomers coming to the team next season?

Finally, Connor, the amount of posts you and Flames111 post in here and over at the Oilers boards I have come to give you a news flash but Flames111 has total domination on backing up facts, comments, and respect in you boards.

Flames111 does not show disrespect and or Troll for that matter in your boards, maybe you should take a lesson from him and see how "healthy rivalry" can be shown..

Troll elsewhere...sick of your immature comments continuously.. .05 for what its worth (and I know its not much).

At least Flame111 has a fan.

And this is relevant to my point....how?

Jay Feaster relies on what he is working with. The scouts in Tampa are not the scouts in Calgary. Who knows, maybe Calgary's scouts are better simply because they are based in Canada (and relatively close to the border so not far from the US either) and have numerous advantages in terms of revenue, proximity to teams....

I honestly don't care how bad his scouting was back in the day. What matters is how he is doing for the Calgary Flames, not the Tampa Bay Lightning. I feel he's been doing a good job with what he's been given. There's no point in going over the past if it isn't relevant to the now. It'd be another matter if he made those failed picks, but he didn't.

I'm not saying he's going to bring a bad drafting record to Calgary but results matter the most and there wasn't much results in Tampa. I'm not sure who was responsible for those bad picks of Tampa's but it should at least bring up some questions.

[Flame111]

At least Flame111 has a fan.

I'm not saying he's going to bring a bad drafting record to Calgary but results matter the most and there wasn't much results in Tampa. I'm not sure who was responsible for those bad picks of Tampa's but it should at least bring up some questions.

Leave the Hate at the door and you will be a better poster.

Some of the best posters here are fans of other teams. Flyerfan, Zirack etc. If you can just adopt the perspective of the other team for a moment your comments will take on a lot more legitimacy.

No one denies the Flames have a challenge ahead of them. I personally think they should move the two big stars this off-season and get on with it. Others disagree but I think the continued depreciation of Kipper and Iginla will eventually lead to nothing in return and make the Flames resurgence even harder, that is my view.

The Oilers I am not as down on as some here but this off-season is a turning point. The team is horribly unbalanced. It must be addressed. I expect a big move out of Edmonton to get that true top 2 D man. If they fail to make this move they could be in the bottom 5 AGAIN and then at that point the culture of losing rises as a real dark specter because there is no way these young players enjoy being on a team in that state.

Either way I can't wait for the playoffs to be over and for the off-season to start, it will probably be one of the most exciting off-seasons in a long time for both Flames and Oilers fans or it should be...

[ConnorFutureGM]

Leave the Hate at the door and you will be a better poster.

Some of the best posters here are fans of other teams. Flyerfan, Zirack etc. If you can just adopt the perspective of the other team for a moment your comments will take on a lot more legitimacy.

No one denies the Flames have a challenge ahead of them. I personally think they should move the two big stars this off-season and get on with it. Others disagree but I think the continued depreciation of Kipper and Iginla will eventually lead to nothing in return and make the Flames resurgence even harder, that is my view.

The Oilers I am not as down on as some here but this off-season is a turning point. The team is horribly unbalanced. It must be addressed. I expect a big move out of Edmonton to get that true top 2 D man. If they fail to make this move they could be in the bottom 5 AGAIN and then at that point the culture of losing rises as a real dark specter because there is no way these young players enjoy being on a team in that state.

Either way I can't wait for the playoffs to be over and for the off-season to start, it will probably be one of the most exciting off-seasons in a long time for both Flames and Oilers fans or it should be...

Oilers need more depth on defence. Five top four defencemen would be better for now than trading a huge chunk of the rebuild for one top pairing defenceman.

The Oilers need to make a move up the standings. Most people would consider it acceptable if they become a bubble team next season. I think they have the moveable pieces enough to make the playoffs. I will be dissapointed if they're not in the playoffs next season.

The Flames should move on from what they were about: Iginla and Kiprusoff. Kiprusoff should be traded because he had a great season last year and he has a tendency to follow up a good season with a sub par one. He also loses his NTC at the end of the season. He also has two more seasons left with a salary lower than cap hit which would make him more valuble to floor teams. Kiprusoff's value is at an all time high.

Iginla is another situation. His decline in his play is becoming noticealbe. Recent rumours have come out that he may not be the ultimate team guy that many thought he was. I'm not sure how high his value would be making 7 million for a 30 something goal scorer. Moing Iginla would also help the Flames turn the page to enter a new era.

I think it would be best for the Flames to trade Kirpuoff and Iginla in the long run. One step back, two forward. I also doubt that Flames ownership agrees with me. From all insider indications, ownership does not want to trade Iginla and do anything they can to make the playoffs. Keeping Iginla would mean maintaining a competitive team which means not trading Kiprusoff. The Flames via ownership will probably do everything they can to make the playoffs next season just coming up short. Iginla could then walk as UFA and that is when the Flames would enter full rebuild mode.

[Crzydrvr]

Iginla could then walk as UFA and that is when the Flames would enter full rebuild mode.

Read through your post. Saw that quote. Immediately thought "Wtf is he talking about...."

IF Iginla stays on as a Calgary Flame, what makes you think he'll just walk? He's as attached to this city as any native Calgarian, and a lot more than most of them. I wouldn't say he couldn't but there is no reason to believe that should we refrain from trading him that he would just hit the roads of FA in a year.

Would Ryan Smyth at 33 just up and leave Edmonton? I would say no judging by how he handled the Islanders trade. He ended up coming back anyways. I'd say the same for Iginla.

You also failed to address Flame111's "leave the hate at the door" comment and once again conveniently forgot to notice the "No one denies the Flames have a challenge ahead of them" quote.

[Flyerfan52]

Oilers need more depth on defence. Five top four defencemen would be better for now than trading a huge chunk of the rebuild for one top pairing defenceman.

& how do you intend to make it 5 top 4s when few considered that will reach UFA & teams aren't going to trade a top 4 for scraps?

[ConnorFutureGM]

Read through your post. Saw that quote. Immediately thought "Wtf is he talking about...."

IF Iginla stays on as a Calgary Flame, what makes you think he'll just walk? He's as attached to this city as any native Calgarian, and a lot more than most of them. I wouldn't say he couldn't but there is no reason to believe that should we refrain from trading him that he would just hit the roads of FA in a year.

Would Ryan Smyth at 33 just up and leave Edmonton? I would say no judging by how he handled the Islanders trade. He ended up coming back anyways. I'd say the same for Iginla.

You also failed to address Flame111's "leave the hate at the door" comment and once again conveniently forgot to notice the "No one denies the Flames have a challenge ahead of them" quote.

What hate? I'm just calling it like I see it.

Iginla is probably really conflicted right now. He wants to stay loyal to the organization that's been loyal to him but he also probably wants to win a up before he retires. Do those conflict?

He also wants to be good to the fan base. Does he stay for the fans or does he accept a trade for the fans? He is also probably developed roots in Calgary and doesn't want to move his family. Do these conflcit?

He is probably in a very similar situation that Sundin was in. If the Flames fail to make the playoffs again this season, wouldn't think about going to another team for a shot at the cup?

I'm not sure if the Oilers re-sign Smyth. They already offered him a two year 2 mil per deal that he declined. Oiler management thinks he's worth Bertuzzi money and the Smyth camp thinks he's worth more and deserves a bigger role.

[Flyerfan52]

The Oilers need to make a move up the standings. Most people would consider it acceptable if they become a bubble team next season. I think they have the moveable pieces enough to make the playoffs. I will be dissapointed if they're not in the playoffs next season.

Not long ago you were guaranteeing a Cup in 2-3 years.

[ConnorFutureGM]

& how do you intend to make it 5 top 4s when few considered that will reach UFA & teams aren't going to trade a top 4 for scraps?

Gagner can be packaged and another one can be signed.

From what I remember, I projected the Oilers to be contenders by the 2015-16 season.

[Flyerfan52]

I think it would be best for the Flames to trade Kirpuoff and Iginla in the long run. One step back, two forward. I also doubt that Flames ownership agrees with me. From all insider indications, ownership does not want to trade Iginla and do anything they can to make the playoffs. Keeping Iginla would mean maintaining a competitive team which means not trading Kiprusoff. The Flames via ownership will probably do everything they can to make the playoffs next season just coming up short. Iginla could then walk as UFA and that is when the Flames would enter full rebuild mode.

Of course because being competitive is a bad thing. Training players to know losing is good is the way to a championship.

You may believe what you type but you might hope to see the Flames sink to the status of wishing for the 1st overall pick instead of desiring the SC.

The BoA could become a battle to draft higher. That would be so disgusting words fail.

[Flyerfan52]

What hate? I'm just calling it like I see it.

I'm not sure if the Oilers re-sign Smyth. They already offered him a two year 2 mil per deal that he declined. Oiler management thinks he's worth Bertuzzi money and the Smyth camp thinks he's worth more and deserves a bigger role.

Unfortunately you don't take off your Oilers glasses to see things clearly before you call them.

It sounds like Edmonton will lose the 1 player that wanted to be there for a 2nd time by low-balling him. Smyth was 5th in scoring on the Oil & the only 1 of the 5 to play 82 games. He's 36 but would likely get 3-3.5 per on a series of 1 year contracts on a contender. Staying in Edmonton means he's giving up any chance of a SC to try to help them win 1 by mentoring the kids. The fact he asked to be traded to the Oilers doesn't mean he was agreeing to be bent over.

Even with a discount a # between 2.5 & 3 sounds right on a 1 year term. That could save the Oilers cap space in the long run as even if he retired in a year the 2 per carries over as a 35+ signing.

[ConnorFutureGM]

Of course because being competitive is a bad thing. Training players to know losing is good is the way to a championship.

You may believe what you type but you might hope to see the Flames sink to the status of wishing for the 1st overall pick instead of desiring the SC.

The BoA could become a battle to draft higher. That would be so disgusting words fail.

Some times teams need to make tough choices about putting all their eggs in the win now basic or take a few of them and build on the future and even sometimes teams can be in rebuild mode and make the playoffs like Ottawa.

Personally, I think Ottawa's success this year was less of them being over achieving this year and more them strongly under achieving last year. It sounded like no one wanted to play for Clouston.

Are the Flames a team that have been suffocated by a bad coach? IMO, some veterans may have under performing while Sutter was helping the younger Flames.

Again, I'm not saying that the Flames have to bottom out. I'm saying they may want to revamp which may take some of the talent that helps win today to bolster the talent that can help win tomorrow.

[ConnorFutureGM]

Unfortunately you don't take off your Oilers glasses to see things clearly before you call them.

It sounds like Edmonton will lose the 1 player that wanted to be there for a 2nd time by low-balling him. Smyth was 5th in scoring on the Oil & the only 1 of the 5 to play 82 games. He's 36 but would likely get 3-3.5 per on a series of 1 year contracts on a contender. Staying in Edmonton means he's giving up any chance of a SC to try to help them win 1 by mentoring the kids. The fact he asked to be traded to the Oilers doesn't mean he was agreeing to be bent over.

Even with a discount a # between 2.5 & 3 sounds right on a 1 year term. That could save the Oilers cap space in the long run as even if he retired in a year the 2 per carries over as a 35+ signing.

How is that even bias? I said what one offered and the other declined. I didn't say my opinion on it one way or another.

I'm not sure how much you follow the Oilers but there have been whispers that Smyth wasn't the greatest veteran presence in the locker room. Smyth however showed up well on the advanced stats. He needs to be able to take a lesser role on the team that he may not be willing to do. If Smyth is willing to accept a lesser role, I'd like the Oilers to sign him to a two year max deal. The lesser the cap hit the better but I would not want them to spend more than 3 mil.

I don't see how 2 mil for two years is even low balling him. Holmstrom made 1.875 mil for two years after scoing 18 goals, 19 assists. Brunette signed a one year 2 mil deal after an 18 goal, 28 assists. Bertuzzi signed a two year extention having a cap hit of 2.075 after scoring 16 goals and 29 assists.

There is also the matter of Oiler prospects knocking on the door. Having Smyth on the team may have taken ice time away from Paajarvi and Hartikainen.

[freerider-316]

Unfortunately you don't take off your Oilers glasses to see things clearly before you call them.

It sounds like Edmonton will lose the 1 player that wanted to be there for a 2nd time by low-balling him. Smyth was 5th in scoring on the Oil & the only 1 of the 5 to play 82 games. He's 36 but would likely get 3-3.5 per on a series of 1 year contracts on a contender. Staying in Edmonton means he's giving up any chance of a SC to try to help them win 1 by mentoring the kids. The fact he asked to be traded to the Oilers doesn't mean he was agreeing to be bent over.

Even with a discount a # between 2.5 & 3 sounds right on a 1 year term. That could save the Oilers cap space in the long run as even if he retired in a year the 2 per carries over as a 35+ signing.

I usually don't get involved in these threads but I wanted to make one little comment. Smyth isn't worth more then 2.5 million per year. I like your idea of handing out one year contracts on a deflating basis though.

[Crzydrvr]

I usually don't get involved in these threads but I wanted to make one little comment. Smyth isn't worth more then 2.5 million per year. I like your idea of handing out one year contracts on a deflating basis though.

He certainly could get more than that however. Veteran, character player, and still capable of 50+points. Even Andrew Brunette got 2.333 M after a 50 point season, and that was a few years back. With contracts inflating since then Smyth is worth at least 2 line money, which is usually in the ballpark of 3 to 4 M.

[Flyerfan52]

I usually don't get involved in these threads but I wanted to make one little comment. Smyth isn't worth more then 2.5 million per year. I like your idea of handing out one year contracts on a deflating basis though.

I figure 3 as top end in negotiations. If he balks let him determine his value on the open market.

If the offers came in @ 3 he'd take 2.5 if he wants to finish his career where it started.

If the offers average 3.5 & he settles for 3 Edmonton has a mentor for the youngsters that just keep on coming. Due to that situation (& his professed love for the Oilers) the Oilers need him.

Better they learn from Smyth then Horcoff.

Losing him a 2nd time for a small amount (by hockey standards) tells the kids that the Oil expect loyalty but don't reciprocate.

But Edmonton should insist on a 1 year term. 2 years could cut the cap hit but only slightly. If he retires after the 1st year the hit continues but the benefit is gone. If he goes 1 year the saving next season balances if he does less & gets smaller $s. If he maintains or exceeds performance the end result costs more but the team has reaped that bonus.

Lidstrom & Selanne sign 1 year terms to ensure the team doesn't lose cap space if they retire for any reason. It's paying for expected performance based on the prior season rather then career while protecting the team from a downturn.

[UnrefinedCrude]

Losing him a 2nd time for a small amount (by hockey standards) tells the kids that the Oil expect loyalty but don't reciprocate.

No it doesn't. Smyth left the first time because neither side would blink in a game of salary chicken. It wasn't one sided.

he asked to come back, and quite frankly Father Time has caught up to him. He was abysmal in the 2nd half of the season. If he walks away because he wants 3 million, the this time it is all on him. he will fill a diminished role at best, so he won't command a big salary like that anymore. If he is leveraging nostalgia to get a big payday, then I will be glad to see him gone. If he accepts a reasonable contract (2.5 M at the very highest,) then there is room for him, if not, then it is fully time to embrace the young players, and let him go.

[Flyerfan52]

No it doesn't. Smyth left the first time because neither side would blink in a game of salary chicken. It wasn't one sided.

he asked to come back, and quite frankly Father Time has caught up to him. He was abysmal in the 2nd half of the season. If he walks away because he wants 3 million, the this time it is all on him. he will fill a diminished role at best, so he won't command a big salary like that anymore. If he is leveraging nostalgia to get a big payday, then I will be glad to see him gone. If he accepts a reasonable contract (2.5 M at the very highest,) then there is room for him, if not, then it is fully time to embrace the young players, and let him go.

It sounds (judging by Oiler fans) that his best bet is to test the market & cut all ties to the Oilers.

By now (after 1 season) he hopefully learned that you can't go home again. It's not the same team nor fans he left when traded so he can't recreate the good feelings he expected.

He'll get offers as a UFA & some will be from teams with a chance of winning a Cup.

St. Louis will probably be in the market for a vet that still puts up #s.

[UnrefinedCrude]

It sounds (judging by Oiler fans) that his best bet is to test the market & cut all ties to the Oilers.

His best bet is to sign a reasonable contract.

[Crzydrvr]

His best bet is to sign a reasonable contract.

2.5-3 M is pretty reasonable for a 46 point veteran forward. Especially ones with ties to Edmonton like Ryan Smyth.

If Ville Leino gets 4 M+ for 50 points and a good playoff showing and Joel Ward gets 3 M for a strong playoff showing, what would Smyth get? 3 M would be right par for value IMO.

You make it sound like he's nothing more than a 2 M utility forward. Which he isn't. He brings a lot of leadership qualities and experience as well. And I'm a Flames fan for god's sake.

It's a crying shame that Smyth is loyal to an organization whose fans threw him away after picking up some shiny new first overall picks. Strong veteran influences are underrated up near the oilsands it seems.

[UnrefinedCrude]

It's a crying shame that Smyth is loyal to an organization whose fans threw him away after picking up some shiny new first overall picks. Strong veteran influences are underrated up near the oilsands it seems.

If the rumour is true that he turned down a 2.51M x 2Yr. contract, then I have no problems breaking ties.

He was hot in the start of the year, but his production tapered off heavily as the season wore on. he took a tonne of bad penalties.

If he were negotiating a 3 Mil one year contract, I would be fine with that, but he has shown signs of age catching him, 2 years at 3 mil is too much.

we already have enough veteran boat anchor contracts.

I have no problems with a 2.5 x 2 year contract, but I do have problems if a player tries to leverage nostalgia for a bigger contract, he's not worth three anymore, and he won't be getting any better over the next two years.

[ConnorFutureGM]

2.5-3 M is pretty reasonable for a 46 point veteran forward. Especially ones with ties to Edmonton like Ryan Smyth.

If Ville Leino gets 4 M+ for 50 points and a good playoff showing and Joel Ward gets 3 M for a strong playoff showing, what would Smyth get? 3 M would be right par for value IMO.

You make it sound like he's nothing more than a 2 M utility forward. Which he isn't. He brings a lot of leadership qualities and experience as well. And I'm a Flames fan for god's sake.

It's a crying shame that Smyth is loyal to an organization whose fans threw him away after picking up some shiny new first overall picks. Strong veteran influences are underrated up near the oilsands it seems.

You're taking the higher priced comparables.

What about Bertuzzi or Homstrom? They are closer to the same age bracket as Smyth, put up similar points and play similar styles. They both were signed for cap hits for less then 2 mil per for 2 years.

If the rumour is true that he turned down a 2.51M x 2Yr. contract, then I have no problems breaking ties.

He was hot in the start of the year, but his production tapered off heavily as the season wore on. he took a tonne of bad penalties.

If he were negotiating a 3 Mil one year contract, I would be fine with that, but he has shown signs of age catching him, 2 years at 3 mil is too much.

we already have enough veteran boat anchor contracts.

I have no problems with a 2.5 x 2 year contract, but I do have problems if a player tries to leverage nostalgia for a bigger contract, he's not worth three anymore, and he won't be getting any better over the next two years.

It was said he turned down a 2 year, 2 mil per deal.

[Crzydrvr]

You're taking the higher priced comparables.

What about Bertuzzi or Homstrom? They are closer to the same age bracket as Smyth, put up similar points and play similar styles. They both were signed for cap hits for less then 2 mil per for 2 years.

They also happen to play for the Detroit Red Wings. Nobody is comparing the Oilers to Detroit anytime soon.

Good players will occasionally take pay cuts to stay on with a great program. The Oilers have been one of the worst teams in a three year span ever since the NHL's modern era started.

Smyth may have a bit of loyalty to the Oilers, but it's clear that he was expecting a lot more from the organization and its fans. He won't be taking that kind of pay cut to stay on with what has been a losing program.

It'd be one thing if you're a free agent who would immediately become the top dog for a long time at still relatively big numbers salarywise, but the majority of FAs know that they'll always be a secondary option for th Oil.

Players like going to places where they'll be the core of the team. For the Parises and the Semins, that rules out Edmonton since the Taylor Halls and Jordan Eberles will be the stars there. Defensemen might take a harder look, but with the Oilers track record up to this point they do not look like a promising destination. Most players don't like going to rebuilding teams unless they have proven that they are truly on the upswing. The Oilers have not yet shown that progression as of yet, for all their promise.

[ConnorFutureGM]

They also happen to play for the Detroit Red Wings. Nobody is comparing the Oilers to Detroit anytime soon.

Good players will occasionally take pay cuts to stay on with a great program. The Oilers have been one of the worst teams in a three year span ever since the NHL's modern era started.

Smyth may have a bit of loyalty to the Oilers, but it's clear that he was expecting a lot more from the organization and its fans. He won't be taking that kind of pay cut to stay on with what has been a losing program.

It'd be one thing if you're a free agent who would immediately become the top dog for a long time at still relatively big numbers salarywise, but the majority of FAs know that they'll always be a secondary option for th Oil.

Players like going to places where they'll be the core of the team. For the Parises and the Semins, that rules out Edmonton since the Taylor Halls and Jordan Eberles will be the stars there. Defensemen might take a harder look, but with the Oilers track record up to this point they do not look like a promising destination. Most players don't like going to rebuilding teams unless they have proven that they are truly on the upswing. The Oilers have not yet shown that progression as of yet, for all their promise.

Saying Edmonton isn't Detroit is neither here nor there. If Smyth wants to stay in Edmonton, he can sign for less. What the Oilers are offering is comparable and not some low ball insult and Smyth would likely get a NMC. The facts you're missing is that Smyth thinks he deserves more money because he still thinks he's a top 6 forward. Smyth has had a hard time accepting a lesser role in Edmonton but it is inevitable with wingers like Hall, Eberle, Paajarvi, Hartikainen, Hemsky and possibly Yakupov taking over the team. Smyth burned himself out after 25 games last season playing 20 minutes a night He had 24 points in those first 25 games. He then followed that up with 22 points in the remaining 57 games. Smyth needs to have less ice time per game and he will be more effective and that would make him in the ball park of 2 mil per.

[ali-iggy]

oiler fans what is going on with the renny situation?? what do you guys think will happen?