Oilers

[Flame111]

Here's what I'd like the Oilers to look like next season:

Eberle-RNH-Doan

Ott-Hall-Yakupov

Smyth-Horcoff-Hemsky

Eager-Belanger-Jones

EXTRA:?

Smid-Petry

Whitney-Sarich

Schultz-Schultz

EXTRA:Sutton-Potter

Dubnyk

Khabibulin

I think this would be a team capable of making the playoffs. Do you?

No, even if you could get Doan and Ott it wouldn't matter. Your top 4 D isn't good enough, Sarich is a bottom pairing D man now and the Oil may be able to sign him on good value but no way he plays top 4 on any NHL playoff team.

Dub and Bulin are not good enough G, they will not get you there.

(1) The Oil have to make bigger moves. Trade Hall or Yak for Schneider. Now you have a real top G. Keep Dub as back-up. Drop Bulin to waivers.

The D is tougher to deal with but again you have to face the challenge - consider Hall or Yak to go again here for a real top D puck-moving D man - a Cam Fowler

Now you have a team. It is balanced, you can fill the thinned forward ranks with prospects from below, you have enough of them. RNH and Eberle are probably the best two the 4 anyway - you have to start thinking about moving the at least one of the big 4 now, failure to do so after this off-season could prove fatal in the rebuild.

The forward ranks are much thinner if you move a couple of them but in exchange you got a true young G who can start, you got a true top D man. Now next season with an improved record you are now ready to start talking about getting top FA.

Forget signing UFAs at this stage, they will all balk at offers, won't matter what money is on the table for the good ones...

[ConnorFutureGM]

No, even if you could get Doan and Ott it wouldn't matter. Your top 4 D isn't good enough, Sarich is a bottom pairing D man now and the Oil may be able to sign him on good value but no way he plays top 4 on any NHL playoff team.

Dub and Bulin are not good enough G, they will not get you there.

(1) The Oil have to make bigger moves. Trade Hall or Yak for Schneider. Now you have a real top G. Keep Dub as back-up. Drop Bulin to waivers.

The D is tougher to deal with but again you have to face the challenge - consider Hall or Yak to go again here for a real top D puck-moving D man - a Cam Fowler

Now you have a team. It is balanced, you can fill the thinned forward ranks with prospects from below, you have enough of them. RNH and Eberle are probably the best two the 4 anyway - you have to start thinking about moving the at least one of the big 4 now, failure to do so after this off-season could prove fatal in the rebuild.

The forward ranks are much thinner if you move a couple of them but in exchange you got a true young G who can start, you got a true top D man. Now next season with an improved record you are now ready to start talking about getting top FA.

Forget signing UFAs at this stage, they will all balk at offers, won't matter what money is on the table for the good ones...

- Sarich was the defensive pressence to be paired with puck-moving Whitney, you can put the Schultz's as 2nd pairing.

- Dubnyk is not good enough but Irving is? Dubnyk has better numbers than Irving on a far less defensive team.

- Hall or Yakupov have much more value than Schnieder. Schnieder has not played a full season as a starter and until he does, his value is drastically inflated.

- Again, Hall or Yakupov have much much more value than Fowler. By your values, Flames should trade Iginla FOR Josefson.

- Teams don't have to be balanced to win. Was Pittsburgh balanced when they won the cup? Whatever the main strength of a team is, they have to have depth in that strength be it defence or goal scoring.

- If the Oilers sign players, they would likely be depth players or younger players looking for a break.

[Flyerfan52]

^

& we know you believe that Connor.

Unfortunately, reality doesn't see things your way.

Enjoy that lottery pick in 2013. If you get #1 again I believe that will be a record. Not 1 to be proud of but I don't see winning the lottery as an achievement either.

[ConnorFutureGM]

^

& we know you believe that Connor.

Unfortunately, reality doesn't see things your way.

Enjoy that lottery pick in 2013. If you get #1 again I believe that will be a record. Not 1 to be proud of but I don't see winning the lottery as an achievement either.

You're useless. Your opinion has as much weight as a used kleenex.

Ask any GM in the league what team they rather have between Calgary and Edmonton and they'd all say Edmonton, including Feaster. Sutter quit his job to come to Edmonton. Calgary media can spin it anyway they want.

Winnipeg isn't in a much better condition either.

You're also jealous.

You can follow you teams all you want but the Oilers have won more championships than the Jets, Flyers and Flames combined. The Flames will likely follow suit in a year after Iginla walks. That is when I anticipate hypocrites like yourself to praise the Flames for their efforts to rebuild. I'm watching for that and I'm going to be calling you on that the first and every time you state something remotely close to a positive post for the Flames rebuild.

We'll see who you are. If you are a person who stands by their convictions, you should desise the Flames forever more if they do such a rebuild. If you don't, you'd be just some hypocritical loudmouth peice of work.

[cross16]

You probably don't watch many nor care to pay attention to the progress of Oilers.

Petry - He has an all-around game and took a huge step in his development in the second half of the year. He showed signs of top pairing potential.

Smid - Was the Oilers most consistent defenceman from start to finish. Showed that he can be a shutdown defenceman.

Schultz - He's really good defensively, similar to Bouwmeester. He skates well and has the ability to settle down the play in the defensive zone.

Whitney - He took a serious step back. In his short showing in the 2010-11 season, he had 27 points in 35 games. he was a shadow of that in 2011-12. If he can re-gain the form of 2010-11, he is a top pairing defenceman. If he forever lost some of that, he should recover enough to be of 2nd paring quality.

Dubnyk - He was solid in the second half of the season. the question is was that a hot streak or an evolution in his development. Oilers are giving him the opportunity to run with it. The difference between Dubnyk and what happened with the Leafs and Reimer is that Dubnyk will at least have a veteran backup to take some heat off of him if he runs into a cold streak.

Bottom 6 - Horcoff, Smyth, Hemsky(maybe), Belanger, Jones, Paajarvi, Lander and Hartikainen. There isn't a lack of speed, defensive awareness or faceoff ability. The main thing is there isn't much toughness.

Here's what I'm hoping the Oilers lines look like at the beginning of next season.

BIG BODY-RNH-Eberle

BIG BODY-Hall-Yakupov

Hartikainen-Horcoff-Hemsky

Smyth-Belanger-Eager

EXTRA:Lander,Paajarvi

Smid-Petry

Whitney-Defensive Defenceman

Schultz-Offensive Defenceman

EXTRA:Sutton-Potter

Dubnyk

Khabibulin

There are players I'd like the Oilers to target and I think they would put them over the top to be in the playoffs.

I actually watch a fair bit of the Oilers living in Alberta and I follow all team's fairly closely.

All of those players hae different upsides sure, But Schultz and Smid offer almost nothing in the offensive game and for me that's not what you want out of your top 4. Sure, if you sign say Denis Wideman and Barret jackman two top notch top 4 dmen you'd be good but that's a very big "if". They type of players the Oilers need on D don't grow on trees. I'm not saying the Oilers don't have good pieces to their D I just think you need 2 true top 4 dman and that also assume Whitney stays healthy. I happen to like Petry too as well and I think he has top 3 potential but he's been very slow to show that. If Whitney could stay healthy I would say they may be able to get by with one big time top 2/3 dmen, but I think it's two.

He was solid sure, just like the OIlers were solid once their season was over and their was no pressure. Until Dubnyk can show me can play in bigger games and steal games he is avg at best in my books. I would have told you that before he was drafted too and so far he hasn't done much to dispell that for me.

I'm not denying the OIlers are getting there, but I think the gap is larger than some fans think. That's why personally i owuld be putting the number one pick on the block to see what I can get or even drop down to take Ryan Murray. At 1 I think you take Yakupov because he is the best player, but ideally if I were Tambelini I would try to drop to 2/3 and get Ryan Murray. Oilers are to the point now where I think they need to stop rebulding and start building and so far despite the draft picks, Tambellini has been less than stellar in terms of building.

[Flame111]

- Sarich was the defensive pressence to be paired with puck-moving Whitney, you can put the Schultz's as 2nd pairing.

- Dubnyk is not good enough but Irving is? Dubnyk has better numbers than Irving on a far less defensive team.

- Hall or Yakupov have much more value than Schnieder. Schnieder has not played a full season as a starter and until he does, his value is drastically inflated.

- Again, Hall or Yakupov have much much more value than Fowler. By your values, Flames should trade Iginla FOR Josefson.

- Teams don't have to be balanced to win. Was Pittsburgh balanced when they won the cup? Whatever the main strength of a team is, they have to have depth in that strength be it defence or goal scoring.

- If the Oilers sign players, they would likely be depth players or younger players looking for a break.

- Sarich has the big hit left but his mobility is falling. I think he is fine on the bottom pairing at the right price but no NHL playoff team will have him in the top 4. Cripes he say as a healthy scratch in the pressbox for the early part of this season on the Flames and the Flames hardly had a great D.

- I never said Irving is going to take the Flames to the playoffs. We are talking about the Oilers. If Kipper is traded I would expect the Flames to pick up Harding or any number of Vet G's. No way they go into next season with just Irving and Karlsson if Kipper is moved.

- Have you watched Schneider play? Seriously, positionally, big saves, tracking the puck. The man is a #1 G on half the teams in the NHL right now. He has consistently performed for the Canucks since he arrived - over 68 games he has a cumulative NHL record of 0.928 Sv%. This guy is as proven as it gets for a young G.

- Dubnyk isn't bad - I never said that but he isn't elite. I think Schneider will be a top G in the NHL and those are rare catch, you go for it if you can get it. Schneider is looking like Carey Price positionally etc. Price was drafted 5th overall, tell me would you trade your 1st for Price? probably…

- Once again you overvalue your #1 pick. There is an extreme shortage of top puck moving D. The low supply drives up their value. There is more elite forwards in the NHL than elite D and the Oilers are so heavy on offense. You can not keep all these players and stifle other players in the minors.

_-When the Pens won the Cup they made key trades and UFA signings to close the deal. Gonchar was absolutely a pivotal UFA signing to lead that team to the Cup.

Name to me the last team to win a Cup without a top D man on the blue-line. If the Canucks won last year, you may have been able to name them but Chara illustrated once again how pivotal that position is. The playoffs this year is again showing it.

Now the Preds, the Kings. Coyotes with Yandle and even Ott may upset the Rangers with Karlsson. You constantly undervalue D, you just don't get it. D is what wins you games. If the Oilers ever get to a point where they are in the lead often going into the final 10 min of the third you are going to see how important D is.

[returnofthejets]

Winnipeg isn't in a much better condition either.

You're also jealous.

I've been somehow emotionally riled up to partake in this debate.

First, on the second comment I've got selected. There's no fan, and I mean no fan, that is jealous of a team that has placed last or second last for 3 years now. I don't disagree that there is promise on the horizon for the oil and that is something to look forward to, but until that promise comes to fruition then there's no jealousy.

And about the Jets being in bad condition. Sure, we inherited a bottom 3rd team, but just as the oil there's a good amount of promise here to (I will copy a comment from your own posts- you probably don't watch many or care to know the progress of the oil Jets). And as I already mentioned, the Thrashers/Jets franchise has finished ahead of the oil for how many years now? Championships from different era's are great, but that has little pull for any of the current teams situations.

Your not in a real solid position to be bringing down other teams, and on the biggest rivals boards no less. I'm not saying the Flames are in great shape going forward, I think there's major trouble, I'm also not saying the Jets are more than they are "right now", but they're moving in the right direction same as the oil. But all 3 teams are in my mind projected to miss the playoffs again next year. So take your claims of jealousy over to the Blue Jackets boards and see if you can get what your looking for there.

[ConnorFutureGM]

I actually do watch a fair bit of the OIlers having lived in Alberta.

All of those players hae different upsdies sure, But Schultz and Smid offer almost nothing in the offensive game and for me that's not what you want out of your top 4. Sure, if you sign say Denis Wideman and Barret jackman two top notch top 4 dmen you'd be good but that's a very big "if". They type of players the Oilers need on D don't grow on trees.

He was solid sure, just like the OIlers were solid once their season was over and their was no pressure. Until Dubnyk can show me can play in bigger games and steal games he is avg at best in my books.

Oilers have alot more needs than you think. They are getting there, but I still don't see them getting FA anytime soon so be preapared to deal thos perecious prospects. if they are they'll get there, but then can tambellini actually get good value? so far his trades have been less than impressive.

I agree that the Oilers need to move some players to address their needs but I don't think they need a big time defenceman like Weber to take them over the top. IMO, if they have defensive depth with defencemen who aren't liabilities, it would help the team immensely.

[cross16]

I agree that the Oilers need to move some players to address their needs but I don't think they need a big time defenceman like Weber to take them over the top. IMO, if they have defensive depth with defencemen who aren't liabilities, it would help the team immensely.

Not necessairly as good as Weber, but I think they need a Jbow, Wideman etc. Not necessarily a top notch dman but they need someone who can play 20-23 mins, play all situations, and bit a bit of a leader. They need at least one of those dmen, and then they would make do with a more defensive/offensive speclilist in their top 4.

Haivng said that if your goal is just to get into the playoffs I agree you don't need that but if your bulding for the playoffs and beyond you do.

[ConnorFutureGM]

- Sarich has the big hit left but his mobility is falling. I think he is fine on the bottom pairing at the right price but no NHL playoff team will have him in the top 4. Cripes he say as a healthy scratch in the pressbox for the early part of this season on the Flames and the Flames hardly had a great D.

- I was looking at some behind the net stats and Sarich might be a good addition. He had a psoitive corsi although he took over 50% of his faceoffs in a non offensive zone.

- I never said Irving is going to take the Flames to the playoffs. We are talking about the Oilers. If Kipper is traded I would expect the Flames to pick up Harding or any number of Vet G's. No way they go into next season with just Irving and Karlsson if Kipper is moved.

- Flames need to dice Karlsson.

- Have you watched Schneider play? Seriously, positionally, big saves, tracking the puck. The man is a #1 G on half the teams in the NHL right now. He has consistently performed for the Canucks since he arrived - over 68 games he has a cumulative NHL record of 0.928 Sv%. This guy is as proven as it gets for a young G.

- Goalies are streaky and he's on a really good team. If next season he gets traded to a non playoff team as a starter I would not at all be surprised if he has average to below average numbers. If he still maintains a .920% then he's definitely legit.

- Dubnyk isn't bad - I never said that but he isn't elite. I think Schneider will be a top G in the NHL and those are rare catch, you go for it if you can get it. Schneider is looking like Carey Price positionally etc. Price was drafted 5th overall, tell me would you trade your 1st for Price? probably…

- Nah. I'd trade a 1st overall for 4+ years of Hasek in his prime. There are few goalies who maintain the same high end numbers season to season and I can't think of any who don't play on defence first teams. Goalies are kind or a crapshoot.

- Once again you overvalue your #1 pick. There is an extreme shortage of top puck moving D. The low supply drives up their value. There is more elite forwards in the NHL than elite D and the Oilers are so heavy on offense. You can not keep all these players and stifle other players in the minors.

- How many 40+ goals scorers are there in the league? How many 40+ point defencemen? Eberle, Hall and Yakupov have 40 goal potential, if not more. RNH has 100 point potential. The Oilers need one high end offensive defenceman. They can trade Gagner and some other parts for that if need be.

_-When the Pens won the Cup they made key trades and UFA signings to close the deal. Gonchar was absolutely a pivotal UFA signing to lead that team to the Cup.

- Is Gonchar an elite defenceman? I would say no. Pittsburgh was definitely top heavy.

Name to me the last team to win a Cup without a top D man on the blue-line. If the Canucks won last year, you may have been able to name them but Chara illustrated once again how pivotal that position is. The playoffs this year is again showing it.

- You think Gonchar is a top defenceman? I disagree. Carolina.

Now the Preds, the Kings. Coyotes with Yandle and even Ott may upset the Rangers with Karlsson. You constantly undervalue D, you just don't get it. D is what wins you games. If the Oilers ever get to a point where they are in the lead often going into the final 10 min of the third you are going to see how important D is.

- I don't undervalue defence. Pronger was the man in 06 but look what it took for Lowe to acquire him. It didn't take 1st overall picks. Burns, Byfuglien and even Phaneuf (I don't consider him a top defenceman but you do) didn't cost close what you think the Oilers have to play. If the Oilers were going to acquire a defenceman like Karlsson or Pietrangelo, they would be more in the ball park of the big 4.

[ConnorFutureGM]

Not necessairly as good as Weber, but I think they need a Jbow, Wideman etc. Not necessarily a top notch dman but they need someone who can play 20-23 mins, play all situations, and bit a bit of a leader. They need at least one of those dmen, and then they would make do with a more defensive/offensive speclilist in their top 4.

Haivng said that if your goal is just to get into the playoffs I agree you don't need that but if your bulding for the playoffs and beyond you do.

JBO would be great if he were right handed or if the Oilers were less deep on the left side but the Oilers are ok on the left side but need more help on the right.

I just want the Oilers to make the playoffs next season without sacraficing significant parts of the rebuild.

I'm not even sure if I'd do this trade because the Oilers need to address other areas first but would the Flames do something like Bouwmeester FOR Gagner?

[ConnorFutureGM]

I've been somehow emotionally riled up to partake in this debate.

First, on the second comment I've got selected. There's no fan, and I mean no fan, that is jealous of a team that has placed last or second last for 3 years now. I don't disagree that there is promise on the horizon for the oil and that is something to look forward to, but until that promise comes to fruition then there's no jealousy.

And about the Jets being in bad condition. Sure, we inherited a bottom 3rd team, but just as the oil there's a good amount of promise here to (I will copy a comment from your own posts- you probably don't watch many or care to know the progress of the oil Jets). And as I already mentioned, the Thrashers/Jets franchise has finished ahead of the oil for how many years now? Championships from different era's are great, but that has little pull for any of the current teams situations.

Your not in a real solid position to be bringing down other teams, and on the biggest rivals boards no less. I'm not saying the Flames are in great shape going forward, I think there's major trouble, I'm also not saying the Jets are more than they are "right now", but they're moving in the right direction same as the oil. But all 3 teams are in my mind projected to miss the playoffs again next year. So take your claims of jealousy over to the Blue Jackets boards and see if you can get what your looking for there.

First off, I didn't mean to offend you. It's FF52 that I have a beef with. He cheers for 3 teams being it the Flames, Jets and Flyers.

It's not jealous of where the Oilers are now, it's the potential of the future. A rebuild sounds easy until you're in it, then it's a lot of pain combined with promise of the future.

The Jets have good young players but there system was depleted by the Thrashers doing everything they could to make the playoffs. It will take a few seasons for them to restock. They might be able to make the playoffs in the mean time but Cheveldayoff will have to be cleaver by making smart acquisitions that don't comprimise the future.

I wouldn't bash the Jackets, they have nothing, including a message boards.

[cross16]

JBO would be great if he were right handed or if the Oilers were less deep on the left side but the Oilers are ok on the left side but need more help on the right.

I was just using him as a barometer of the type of dman. I agree you don't necessarily need a top 10 NHL dman, but I think you need someone in that 15 -25 range.

I just want the Oilers to make the playoffs next season without sacraficing significant parts of the rebuild.

That is the esence of what I am saying and you see how this isn't as easy as you think?

Do you go out and get some average plays that may help you get into the playoffs but tie up cap money and rescources and they may not get you to be a contender? The only thing that would change this is if the OIlers do become attractive in FA and they can land someone from what could be a proimising crop. If that changes, then you golden, but if it doens't its difficult unless you want to sacrifice pieces.

I'm not even sure if I'd do this trade because the Oilers need to address other areas first but would the Flames do something like Bouwmeester FOR Gagner?

No, not a chance IMO unless the Oilers want to add more straight up thats a terrible deal for the Flames. Outside of a few weeks Gagner was his normal self last year and even though I'm not a big fan of Jbow I wouldn't move him for Gagner unless the OIlers added in something like a Corey Potter or Anton Lander.

[ConnorFutureGM]

I was just using him as a barometer of the type of dman. I agree you don't necessarily need a top 10 NHL dman, but I think you need someone in that 15 -25 range.

That is the esence of what I am saying and you see how this isn't as easy as you think?

Do you go out and get some average plays that may help you get into the playoffs but tie up cap money and rescources and they may not get you to be a contender? The only thing that would change this is if the OIlers do become attractive in FA and they can land someone from what could be a proimising crop. If that changes, then you golden, but if it doens't its difficult unless you want to sacrifice pieces.

No, not a chance IMO unless the Oilers want to add more straight up thats a terrible deal for the Flames. Outside of a few weeks Gagner was his normal self last year and even though I'm not a big fan of Jbow I wouldn't move him for Gagner unless the OIlers added in something like a Corey Potter or Anton Lander.

- You mean 15th to 25th best defenceman in the league? That would help but also be expensive and not the most benefical. You could say that a 15th to 25th overall defenceman is a top pairing defenceman. That would take pressure off the other guys but I think the Oilers would benefit more by adding 2 top four defencemen.

- I agree that Oilers need to at least make the playoffs before any top UFAs would give them a thought.

- There's a big spread between Lander and Potter. Potter is a depth defenceman with a decent one timer. Lander is pencilled in as the Oilers shut down guy for the future similar to what Bolland is to the Blackhawks.

[ConnorFutureGM]

- Sarich was the defensive pressence to be paired with puck-moving Whitney, you can put the Schultz's as 2nd pairing.

- Dubnyk is not good enough but Irving is? Dubnyk has better numbers than Irving on a far less defensive team.

- Hall or Yakupov have much more value than Schnieder. Schnieder has not played a full season as a starter and until he does, his value is drastically inflated.

- Again, Hall or Yakupov have much much more value than Fowler. By your values, Flames should trade Iginla FOR Josefson.

- Teams don't have to be balanced to win. Was Pittsburgh balanced when they won the cup? Whatever the main strength of a team is, they have to have depth in that strength be it defence or goal scoring.

- If the Oilers sign players, they would likely be depth players or younger players looking for a break.

^

& we know you believe that Connor.

Unfortunately, reality doesn't see things your way.

Enjoy that lottery pick in 2013. If you get #1 again I believe that will be a record. Not 1 to be proud of but I don't see winning the lottery as an achievement either.

Unlikely the Jets will be pursuing a starter as Pavelec seems to be becoming a darn good starter. They might go for an upgrade over Chris Mason as backup.

Pavelec 29-28-9, 2.91GAA, .906%

Dubnyk 20-20-3, 2.67GAA, .914%

If Pavelec is "a darn good starter", Dubnyk's an all-star.

This goes to show you complete lack of any credibility. You claim Dubnyk isn't good enough but a far lesser goalie is better by you.

You take shots at the Oilers any chance you can get but have nothing to back it up because soon as the shoe is on one of your teams feet, it's great news.

Watch what you post because I'm calling you on it every time I see you making a complete imbecile of yourself.

[cross16]

- You mean 15th to 25th best defenceman in the league? That would help but also be expensive and not the most benefical. You could say that a 15th to 25th overall defenceman is a top pairing defenceman. That would take pressure off the other guys but I think the Oilers would benefit more by adding 2 top four defencemen.

Yes i think you need a top pairing dman to be a true contender and that's really the only aspect of a team that is not in the Oiler's pool. I don't necessarily think you need a stud like a Shea Weber, but i think you need that to be a contender. Again, I agree that if your goal is just to make the playoffs if the Oilers got 2 true top 4 dman they would be very close but that asks the question is it worth the $ and assets?

- There's a big spread between Lander and Potter. Potter is a depth defenceman with a decent one timer. Lander is pencilled in as the Oilers shut down guy for the future similar to what Bolland is to the Blackhawks.

Potter has some potential to be a 4/5 dmen with RH bomb shot for the PP which is a huge need for the Flames which is why I would have interest. I'm not saying it would just be Gagner/Potter but those are realistic options that I would want in return for Jbow. I would take Gagner/Lander for Jbow, but Jbow for Gagner,Potter and another pick/avg prospect would be what I would want.

[Flyerfan52]

Watch what you post because I'm calling you on it every time I see you making a complete imbecile of yourself.

Jets 11th in the east, 22nd in the league & in the playoff hunt until the last week.

Oiler 14th in the west, 29th in the league & eliminated from the playoffs in Nov/Dec.

Conner, that thing you sit on is your apple (aka butt, keister, etc.). A dugout depression in the ground is a hole.

Now you should be able to tell the difference.

[ConnorFutureGM]

Jets 11th in the east, 22nd in the league & in the playoff hunt until the last week.

Oiler 14th in the west, 29th in the league & eliminated from the playoffs in Nov/Dec.

Conner, that thing you sit on is your apple (aka butt, keister, etc.). A dugout depression in the ground is a hole.

Now you should be able to tell the difference.

It's funny that you should bring up butt and telling the difference because I can't tell what most of what you're saying is coming from your mouth or out of your a$$.

On December 15th, the Jets had 32 points and the Oilers had 31. The Oilers also play in a stronger conference while the Jets play in the weakest division in the league.

What's more telling is the Jets strength lies with their defence core while the Oilers defence is considered their weakest point.

Dubnyk is better than Pavelec and according to you, Pavelec is "a darn good starter" which make Dubnyk an amazing starting goalie.

Keep contradicting yourself, it's fun knocking people like you off their high horse by showing what you say is plain dumb.

[ConnorFutureGM]

Yes i think you need a top pairing dman to be a true contender and that's really the only aspect of a team that is not in the Oiler's pool. I don't necessarily think you need a stud like a Shea Weber, but i think you need that to be a contender. Again, I agree that if your goal is just to make the playoffs if the Oilers got 2 true top 4 dman they would be very close but that asks the question is it worth the $ and assets?

Potter has some potential to be a 4/5 dmen with RH bomb shot for the PP which is a huge need for the Flames which is why I would have interest. I'm not saying it would just be Gagner/Potter but those are realistic options that I would want in return for Jbow. I would take Gagner/Lander for Jbow, but Jbow for Gagner,Potter and another pick/avg prospect would be what I would want.

If it's getting a top pairing guy for the long haul, IMO Oilers are best to wait and see if something happens where they can acquire one without paying a boat load. Free agency or maybe a player wants to get traded to Canada or something along those lines. They don't need a top pairing defenceman now, but soon they will.

I would think that Lander is comparable to Backlund. Backlund is probably a better skater but maybe he doesn't have the compete that Lander has.

The thing I don't like about Bouwmeester is it seems he's like a robot out there. IMO you need those guys that get fire in their eyes, especially during the playoffs. Bouwmeester would probably kill as a pairing with Weber. If you're about rebuilding, I would think trading Bouwmeester to Nashville if Suter leaves for a package. Potter is ok but I highly doubt he's higher than a 6th defenceman on a good team.

[Crzydrvr]

- Dubnyk is not good enough but Irving is? Dubnyk has better numbers than Irving on a far less defensive team.

- Hall or Yakupov have much more value than Schnieder. Schnieder has not played a full season as a starter and until he does, his value is drastically inflated.

- Teams don't have to be balanced to win. Was Pittsburgh balanced when they won the cup? Whatever the main strength of a team is, they have to have depth in that strength be it defence or goal scoring.

- If the Oilers sign players, they would likely be depth players or younger players looking for a break.

- Irving isn't proven either, but he's shown a lot more earlier in his career than Dubnyk did. That's why we think he's going to be a good one. Is that a guarantee, no, but either way we won't find out for at least another year because Irving won't be the full-time starter after just 5 games in the NHL.

- Schneider is a proven talent, who has been outplaying a future HHOF goalie (as much as it pains me to say, that's what Luongo'll be at the end of his career). Those do not grow on trees. Potential is valued far less around the NHL compared to legitimate proven talent.

- Pittsburgh was extremely balanced, are you mental? They had Gonchar, Letang, Goligoski, Orpik, Gill, Scuderi, Eaton, and Sydor all fighting just to get into the damn lineup. They had Crosby/Malkin/Staal/Talbot rolling up their center position. Tell me that isn't arguably the best group of centermen you have ever seen on one team in the past 2 decades. They had Fleury starting in net and one Mathieu Garon (you may have heard of him, since he had one of the best seasons an Oilers goalie has had since the days of Fuhr) as his backup. They could have put together at least 4 capable defense pairings, they had 3 NHL caliber goalies, they had 1 stellar checking line, they could throw 3 scoring lines at you (without sacrificing defensive ability) and they had Malkin, with 113 points, as their second-line center. Enough said.

Ask any GM in the league what team they rather have between Calgary and Edmonton and they'd all say Edmonton, including Feaster. Sutter quit his job to come to Edmonton. Calgary media can spin it anyway they want.

Winnipeg isn't in a much better condition either.

You can follow you teams all you want but the Oilers have won more championships than the Jets, Flyers and Flames combined. The Flames will likely follow suit in a year after Iginla walks. That is when I anticipate hypocrites like yourself to praise the Flames for their efforts to rebuild. I'm watching for that and I'm going to be calling you on that the first and every time you state something remotely close to a positive post for the Flames rebuild.

We'll see who you are. If you are a person who stands by their convictions, you should desise the Flames forever more if they do such a rebuild. If you don't, you'd be just some hypocritical loudmouth peice of work.

- Obviously more GMs would say Edmonton, look at what they've been able to bring to the table thanks to 3 consecutive first overall picks. Doesn't mean they'd want to be in the same position. Don't kid yourself, they only want you for 4 reasons: Taylor Hall, Jordan Eberle, RNH, and that shiny new first overall pick.

- Winnipeg's built a team that has star power, contending level defensive depth and a young starting goalie. Oilers aren't the only team with young talent, Kane is going to be a franchise forward, Ladd is a perfect fit as a top 6 forward, Blake Wheeler has broken out after tailing off in Boston, Burmistrov will be a top 6 center, Byfuglien and Enstrom anchor a capable young defense and are arguably one of the best one-two punches in the league back there....If you asked most GMs whether they'd rather have the Jets roster or the Oilers, I'm sure more than a few would take the Jets.

- Nice, playing on your last Cup victory back about 20 years ago. Let's be honest: how many people here care about something from that long ago? We don't parade our '89 Cup victory to everyone else, yet you seem to think that what happened in '90 is relevant now.

- Personally, I'd be a fan of the Flames. My loyalties don't lie to a method or a belief, they lie in my team and my game. If the Flames tank and pull a Tambellini then great, laugh at us, I don't care. Obviously I wouldn't be happy, but there's no point in turning my back on a team that's been my crutch since I moved here. I'm sure FF feels the same way to all three of his teams.

If it's getting a top pairing guy for the long haul, IMO Oilers are best to wait and see if something happens where they can acquire one without paying a boat load. Free agency or maybe a player wants to get traded to Canada or something along those lines. They don't need a top pairing defenceman now, but soon they will.

I would think that Lander is comparable to Backlund. Backlund is probably a better skater but maybe he doesn't have the compete that Lander has.

- And where exactly are you going to get a top pairing defenseman on the cheap? The last one to get moved at a discount was Phaneuf, and we can see how well he's working out in Toronto. There are no more GMs who will be stupid enough to let those players go without making sure they get full value for them or at least get something for their negotiating rights. And I seem to recall the last time a major player was about to be sent to Edmonton that player balked. And he happened to be a Canadian who has willingly spent his summers wearing the Maple Leaf.

- Lander has neither the draft pedigree nor the offensive abilities to compare to Backlund. And you seem to believe that draft pedigree is worth a lot so it should be even more so. Backlund has the wheels and skillset to be a dominant two-way threat. Lander, at his best, will only be able to shut down opposing lines. Not bad, but lately the NHL seems to be moving away from those one-dimensional players and more into those versatile ones.

[Flyerfan52]

[quote name='Crzydrvr' timestamp='1335066678' post='578557'

- Personally, I'd be a fan of the Flames. My loyalties don't lie to a method or a belief, they lie in my team and my game. If the Flames tank and pull a Tambellini then great, laugh at us, I don't care. Obviously I wouldn't be happy, but there's no point in turning my back on a team that's been my crutch since I moved here. I'm sure FF feels the same way to all three of his teams.

Good points throughout by I'll just use this rather then quote the whole thing.

I chose the Flyers & Flames as my teams for a reason. Both are class organizations that believe in winning.

The Jets were added merely because we suddenly had a home team again. I respect the way True North is going about building a former loser. In their 1st year (an evaluation year as the management didn't even meet most of the players until training camp) they were a bubble team.

I used to respect the Oilers but the Heatley fiasco (the begging especially) just turned me off. Just so much desperation! (BTW, Heatley hasn't complained about being traded to the Wild.)

When they realized that wouldn't work they spun it as if losing to win was the plan.

All draft picks are happy to be taken high. The tough part is keeping them if the team has no direction.

[returnofthejets]

Pavelec 29-28-9, 2.91GAA, .906%Dubnyk 20-20-3, 2.67GAA, .914%

You claim (I know directed at FF) Dubnyk isn't good enough but a far lesser goalie is better by you.

The Oilers also play in a stronger conference while the Jets play in the weakest division in the league.

Dubnyk is better than Pavelec

Let me start by saying I know this wasn't directed at me personally, I take no personal offense. But I do feel the need to clear a few things. I'm also not saying Dubnyk or Pavelec is better or worse than anyone.

But a few things to start...

Pavelec- 24 years old, Dubnyk is 25 and is all around 16 months older. For a young goalie, or any player for that matter, a year and a half age difference is a pretty big gap of overall experience.

Pavelec played in 68 games this year, 5th most in the league and has played in a total of 187 NHL games. Dubnyk played in 47 this year, 25th in the league and has 101 NHL games under his belt. Comparing a guy who was a work horse and go to guy for the year vs. a guy that was a tandem doesn't work.

As for the conference and division stuff, really. You make it sound like the west is the NHL and the east is the AHL. I've never liked this excuse. But since you want to talk divisions (by the way I think both divisions should be embarrassed for their seasons) the SE is a bit more open and offensive than the NW so stats like save% and goals against average are impacted.

I've obviously seen Pavelec more just as you've seen Dubnyk more, so instead of just looking at stats, take a word from someone that has seen him play a lot, Pavelec is better than his numbers. And the games I did see Dubnyk play I've also liked him.

[ConnorFutureGM]

1. Schneider is a proven talent, who has been outplaying a future HHOF goalie (as much as it pains me to say, that's what Luongo'll be at the end of his career). Those do not grow on trees. Potential is valued far less around the NHL compared to legitimate proven talent.

2. Pittsburgh was extremely balanced, are you mental? They had Gonchar, Letang, Goligoski, Orpik, Gill, Scuderi, Eaton, and Sydor all fighting just to get into the damn lineup. They had Crosby/Malkin/Staal/Talbot rolling up their center position. Tell me that isn't arguably the best group of centermen you have ever seen on one team in the past 2 decades. They had Fleury starting in net and one Mathieu Garon (you may have heard of him, since he had one of the best seasons an Oilers goalie has had since the days of Fuhr) as his backup. They could have put together at least 4 capable defense pairings, they had 3 NHL caliber goalies, they had 1 stellar checking line, they could throw 3 scoring lines at you (without sacrificing defensive ability) and they had Malkin, with 113 points, as their second-line center. Enough said.

3. Obviously more GMs would say Edmonton, look at what they've been able to bring to the table thanks to 3 consecutive first overall picks. Doesn't mean they'd want to be in the same position. Don't kid yourself, they only want you for 4 reasons: Taylor Hall, Jordan Eberle, RNH, and that shiny new first overall pick.

4. Winnipeg's built a team that has star power, contending level defensive depth and a young starting goalie. Oilers aren't the only team with young talent, Kane is going to be a franchise forward, Ladd is a perfect fit as a top 6 forward, Blake Wheeler has broken out after tailing off in Boston, Burmistrov will be a top 6 center, Byfuglien and Enstrom anchor a capable young defense and are arguably one of the best one-two punches in the league back there....If you asked most GMs whether they'd rather have the Jets roster or the Oilers, I'm sure more than a few would take the Jets.

5. Nice, playing on your last Cup victory back about 20 years ago. Let's be honest: how many people here care about something from that long ago? We don't parade our '89 Cup victory to everyone else, yet you seem to think that what happened in '90 is relevant now.

6. Personally, I'd be a fan of the Flames. My loyalties don't lie to a method or a belief, they lie in my team and my game. If the Flames tank and pull a Tambellini then great, laugh at us, I don't care. Obviously I wouldn't be happy, but there's no point in turning my back on a team that's been my crutch since I moved here. I'm sure FF feels the same way to all three of his teams.

7. And where exactly are you going to get a top pairing defenseman on the cheap? The last one to get moved at a discount was Phaneuf, and we can see how well he's working out in Toronto. There are no more GMs who will be stupid enough to let those players go without making sure they get full value for them or at least get something for their negotiating rights. And I seem to recall the last time a major player was about to be sent to Edmonton that player balked. And he happened to be a Canadian who has willingly spent his summers wearing the Maple Leaf.

8. Lander has neither the draft pedigree nor the offensive abilities to compare to Backlund. And you seem to believe that draft pedigree is worth a lot so it should be even more so. Backlund has the wheels and skillset to be a dominant two-way threat. Lander, at his best, will only be able to shut down opposing lines. Not bad, but lately the NHL seems to be moving away from those one-dimensional players and more into those versatile ones.

1. Do you think Schnieder would be as impressive on a non playoff team? You may but I have my doubts. Vancouver brought him along well.

2. Letang then wasn't Letang now. Nobody was talking about Letang 3 years ago. Gonchar was not some stud defenceman. He was a solid offensive defenceman but was never close to Norris Calibur. The rest of the defencemen were blue collar type. Compare that to Pittsburgh's forwards. Malkin was Con Smythe and a big point produced and Crosby was MVP. Malkin and Crosby are both on the first unit powerplay so it's not like he had 113 points without Crosby on the ice.

3. Oilers also have a bunch of other decent but less high profile prospects but there are definitely 4 main reasons.

4. Oilers' roster and prospects vs Jets' roster and prospects. Oilers but Jets do have some young potential stars in Kane and some good players in their prime with Ladd, Byfuglien and Enstrom.

5. I'm proud that the Oilers had some of the best players ever at the same time and won several championships from it. The past of a team defines the culture of a team. Montreal has a culture, Toronto, Edmonton has a culture and I'd even say Calgary has a culture defined by its past. Can you think of anything from the past that defines the Canucks' culture? Maybe that's why their fans are the most annoying in the league by a country mile.

6. There's a difference between you and FF, you don't run your mouth (keyboard) about what a loser thing it is for the Oilers to be rebuilding in the method that they are. He also claims that is the reason for his disdain of the Oilers. Fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion but then if he completely changes his opinion because of the person or team using that method, I lose all respect. Just say you don't like the Oilers because you don't like the Oilers. Don't say you don't like them because of their rebuild or mismanagment and then completely endorse your team if they do the same thing. I don't like the Flames because they're my rivals. I'm not going to say Kiprusoff sucks and should retire in one post and then say Dubnyk is an awesome starter in the other. It's called being credible and FF is not.

7. Pronger was acquired from the Oilers at an excellent rate. I'm hoping by the time the Oilers need a #1 defenceman, they will be a good enough team to attract such a player through free agency. There might also be openings this new CBA if the cap his significantly reduced.

8. I wouldn't count out what Lander can bring yet and Backlund isn't living up to the hype. Lander was the captain of his Swedeish (adult) team at 20. His skating has improved vastly. I compare him to have the potential of Bolland. Bolland is not one dimensional and neither is Lander. Another season in the AHL might be better for his development but he works hard and has great hockey sense and IMO those are the 2 biggest attributes to have in a prospect/young player.

[ConnorFutureGM]

Let me start by saying I know this wasn't directed at me personally, I take no personal offense. But I do feel the need to clear a few things. I'm also not saying Dubnyk or Pavelec is better or worse than anyone.

But a few things to start...

Pavelec- 24 years old, Dubnyk is 25 and is all around 16 months older. For a young goalie, or any player for that matter, a year and a half age difference is a pretty big gap of overall experience.

Pavelec played in 68 games this year, 5th most in the league and has played in a total of 187 NHL games. Dubnyk played in 47 this year, 25th in the league and has 101 NHL games under his belt. Comparing a guy who was a work horse and go to guy for the year vs. a guy that was a tandem doesn't work.

As for the conference and division stuff, really. You make it sound like the west is the NHL and the east is the AHL. I've never liked this excuse. But since you want to talk divisions (by the way I think both divisions should be embarrassed for their seasons) the SE is a bit more open and offensive than the NW so stats like save% and goals against average are impacted.

I've obviously seen Pavelec more just as you've seen Dubnyk more, so instead of just looking at stats, take a word from someone that has seen him play a lot, Pavelec is better than his numbers. And the games I did see Dubnyk play I've also liked him.

I have nothing against Pavelec and the times I've seen him play he did well, kind of Grant Fuhr style of making the big save when the team needed it most.

Both one or none could prove themselves in the long run. I just thought it was asinine to say Dubnyk is horrible in one breath and then say Pavelec is a darn good starter in another.

I used to respect the Oilers but the Heatley fiasco (the begging especially) just turned me off. Just so much desperation! (BTW, Heatley hasn't complained about being traded to the Wild.)

When they realized that wouldn't work they spun it as if losing to win was the plan.

All draft picks are happy to be taken high. The tough part is keeping them if the team has no direction.

- Yeah, chasing whales was stupid by the Oilers. What was Feaster doing last July 1st?

- What is the Flames direction? The Oilers have a much clearer direction of where they're taking the team and how they will become contenders than the Flames.

[Crzydrvr]

2. Letang then wasn't Letang now. Nobody was talking about Letang 3 years ago. Gonchar was not some stud defenceman. He was a solid offensive defenceman but was never close to Norris Calibur. The rest of the defencemen were blue collar type. Compare that to Pittsburgh's forwards. Malkin was Con Smythe and a big point produced and Crosby was MVP. Malkin and Crosby are both on the first unit powerplay so it's not like he had 113 points without Crosby on the ice.

7. Pronger was acquired from the Oilers at an excellent rate. I'm hoping by the time the Oilers need a #1 defenceman, they will be a good enough team to attract such a player through free agency. There might also be openings this new CBA if the cap his significantly reduced.

- Correction: Letang wasn't AS HYPED as he is now by the masses. Those who knew the game then knew he was going to be a good one. And he still led the team in D scoring that Cup-winning year. Gonchar was a 19 pts in 25 games scorer, that's still keeping pace with his 50 and 60 point years. You can argue how much of a Norris caliber candidate he was, but fact is he was a stud Dman at that time and was certainly a top tier workhorse.

- Pronger was acquired back in 06. The GMs have changed, that deal is hard to close out, almost as much as it is to nab a top line center. And you still got Joffrey Lupul, Ladislav Smid, and 3 draft picks including 2 first rounders from the Pronger trade. Considering Lupul was a top 6 pick, Smid was a top 10 pick, and you managed to pull out Jordan Eberle from the second first rounder....that's still a hefty price to pay for 2 top 3 forwards and a top 4 defenseman, not to mention 2 high picks.