Oilers

[Crzydrvr]

Going back to that Atlanta comparison I've decided to throw out there, Kovalchuk scored 52 goals and 98 points there. Hossa had 93 and 100 points there. Savard had 97 points there. At one point they had THREE major point per game players. I'm sure that got them far. Oh wait. Nope. They didn't even make the playoffs that year.

They had a young defense that still had Braydon Coburn, 8th overall 2003 (ahead of some dude named Phaneuf) and they had very similar expectations: that their forwards (who were just slightly older than the RNH-Hall-Eberle trio is now) would continue to score, that Lehtonen would prove to be good enough, and that their young D would be able to step forward developmentally.

The thing I find about assuming there will be internal improvement is....hockey rarely works to perfection. You cannot take for granted that the Oilers WILL be better next year or even further into the future.

1. Two legitimate scoring lines. One can have Hall-Gagner-Hemsky, the other can have Smyth-RNH-Eberle

- Hall 30+ goals

- Gagner 50+ points

- Hemsky plays 70+ games

- RNH gets 60+ points

- Eberle stays around ppg

- Smyth just needs 20+ goals

2. The bottom 2 lines have to be more consistent with a physical presence

3. Whitney has to play 70+ games

4. Smid or Gilbert has to be at least as good next season as they were this season

5. Petry has to stay at least at the same level as he is now

- Numbers 3, 4, and 5 gives the Oilers 3 top 4 defencemen

6. The team needs a combined save % of .915

7. Special teams stay at least at their current level

That is a lot of things that need to go right for the Oil to take a shot at the playoffs. Not just a little. That's SEVEN things that need to go right just for the Oilers to even have a chance of getting in. Not guaranteeing a spot. Just COMPETING for a spot needs 7 pieces of what's basically luck.

[ConnorFutureGM]

Going back to that Atlanta comparison I've decided to throw out there, Kovalchuk scored 52 goals and 98 points there. Hossa had 93 and 100 points there. Savard had 97 points there. At one point they had THREE major point per game players. I'm sure that got them far. Oh wait. Nope. They didn't even make the playoffs that year.

They had a young defense that still had Braydon Coburn, 8th overall 2003 (ahead of some dude named Phaneuf) and they had very similar expectations: that their forwards (who were just slightly older than the RNH-Hall-Eberle trio is now) would continue to score, that Lehtonen would prove to be good enough, and that their young D would be able to step forward developmentally.

The thing I find about assuming there will be internal improvement is....hockey rarely works to perfection. You cannot take for granted that the Oilers WILL be better next year or even further into the future.

That is a lot of things that need to go right for the Oil to take a shot at the playoffs. Not just a little. That's SEVEN things that need to go right just for the Oilers to even have a chance of getting in. Not guaranteeing a spot. Just COMPETING for a spot needs 7 pieces of what's basically luck.

The thing is Flames fans fail to realize the differences in the injury situations of the two teams the last couple of seasons.

Oilers - Hall missed 17 games last season, 10 this season. Eberle missed 13 last season, 4 this season. RNH missed 19 games this season.

Flames - Iginla missed 0 games the last 3 seasons. Jokinen missed 3 games last season. Tanguay and Glencross missed 15 and 16 this season but only 3 last season.

Oilers - Whitney missed 47 games last season, 21 this season but only playing 80%.

Flames - Bouwmeester missed 0 games since joining the Flames.

Oilers - Khabibulin missed lots of time last season and the season prior. Is out now for a week or two.

Flames - Kiprusoff has played 70+ games for the Flames the last 6 seasons.

I would like to see the Flames do if they had to lose their leading scorers, their best defender or their starting goaltender.

[Crzydrvr]

The thing is Flames fans fail to realize the differences in the injury situations of the two teams the last couple of seasons.

Oilers - Hall missed 17 games last season, 10 this season. Eberle missed 13 last season, 4 this season. RNH missed 19 games this season.

Flames - Iginla missed 0 games the last 3 seasons. Jokinen missed 3 games last season. Tanguay and Glencross missed 15 and 16 this season but only 3 last season.

Oilers - Whitney missed 47 games last season, 21 this season but only playing 80%.

Flames - Bouwmeester missed 0 games since joining the Flames.

Oilers - Khabibulin missed lots of time last season and the season prior. Is out now for a week or two.

Flames - Kiprusoff has played 70+ games for the Flames the last 6 seasons.

I would like to see the Flames do if they had to lose their leading scorers, their best defender or their starting goaltender.

Like I said, Atlanta comparison. Kovy played 78 games in 06, Hossa played 80 and Savard managed to play the full season. Didn't stop them from getting 10th place that season.

This is an Oilers thread so I'm going to talk Oilers. I bring up comparisons for the sake of comparing similarities. You bring up comparisons to signify a difference. Comparing Calgary and Edmonton is like comparing apples to oranges. They play in the NHL. They both base themselves in Alberta. Other than that there's nothing in common, nothing that we could compare without putting an asterisk next to it. I'm sorry but saying Edmonton has a better future is opinionated. Saying they have a younger and faster core is fact. But you don't know what'll happen to either team over a 2 or more period of time. For all you know, Sven Bartschi could turn out to be better than RNH. not saying he will, but it's not impossible.

I use the Atlanta comparison because I find a lot of similarities from that 2002-07 Thrashers team and the team that the Oilers have today. They both had a trio of highly potent offensive weapons. A playmaking center, a fast drive-the-net winger, and an all-around player who could score and pass. They both had average goaltenders. Lehtonen was young and inconsistent, while Khabibulin has been inconsistent over his Alberta tenure and Dubnyk has been flat out up and down. They both had average defenses (while the Oilers are young, the Thrashers had experience; you could even make the case that the Thrashers had a better defense then than the Oilers do now).

The Thrashers had trouble attracting marquee free agents and even lost Savard to Boston. And they arguably had a better team with just as potent a future. I don't see Eberle, Hall and RNH putting up 90 and 100 point seasons yet. Nor do the Oilers have the benefit of experienced vets on the D like Niclas Havelid, Alexei Zhitnik, and Jaroslav Modry, and since you did say that experience wins games....Khabibulin at his best is better than Lehtonen, but Bulin gets injured frequently and Dubnyk is average at best. Lehtonen had the ability to steal games just as much as Khabi did, he just so happened to do it and then stink out the joint the next night.

They finished 10th in 06 and 3rd in 07 due to the fact that they were the best of a bad bunch. They were only 5 points out of 8th place despite 8 games each against Washington, Carolina, and Florida, all of whom were in the bottom third of the league. And they were in a weaker conference.

[ConnorFutureGM]

Like I said, Atlanta comparison. Kovy played 78 games in 06, Hossa played 80 and Savard managed to play the full season. Didn't stop them from getting 10th place that season.

This is an Oilers thread so I'm going to talk Oilers. I bring up comparisons for the sake of comparing similarities. You bring up comparisons to signify a difference. Comparing Calgary and Edmonton is like comparing apples to oranges. They play in the NHL. They both base themselves in Alberta. Other than that there's nothing in common, nothing that we could compare without putting an asterisk next to it. I'm sorry but saying Edmonton has a better future is opinionated. Saying they have a younger and faster core is fact. But you don't know what'll happen to either team over a 2 or more period of time. For all you know, Sven Bartschi could turn out to be better than RNH. not saying he will, but it's not impossible.

I use the Atlanta comparison because I find a lot of similarities from that 2002-07 Thrashers team and the team that the Oilers have today. They both had a trio of highly potent offensive weapons. A playmaking center, a fast drive-the-net winger, and an all-around player who could score and pass. They both had average goaltenders. Lehtonen was young and inconsistent, while Khabibulin has been inconsistent over his Alberta tenure and Dubnyk has been flat out up and down. They both had average defenses (while the Oilers are young, the Thrashers had experience; you could even make the case that the Thrashers had a better defense then than the Oilers do now).

The Thrashers had trouble attracting marquee free agents and even lost Savard to Boston. And they arguably had a better team with just as potent a future. I don't see Eberle, Hall and RNH putting up 90 and 100 point seasons yet. Nor do the Oilers have the benefit of experienced vets on the D like Niclas Havelid, Alexei Zhitnik, and Jaroslav Modry, and since you did say that experience wins games....Khabibulin at his best is better than Lehtonen, but Bulin gets injured frequently and Dubnyk is average at best. Lehtonen had the ability to steal games just as much as Khabi did, he just so happened to do it and then stink out the joint the next night.

They finished 10th in 06 and 3rd in 07 due to the fact that they were the best of a bad bunch. They were only 5 points out of 8th place despite 8 games each against Washington, Carolina, and Florida, all of whom were in the bottom third of the league. And they were in a weaker conference.

This is meant to be an Oilers, Oilers vs Flames thread.

You are looking for similarities in Atlanta because it is convenient to do so. You can almost take any team with a good 1st line and say it's similar. Kovalchuk, Heatley and Savard are far different players than Hall, Eberle and RNH. All of the 3 players you mentioned in Atlanta are known to have attitude problems in one form or another. Savard was also in a different age bracket compared th Kovalchuk and Heatley.

Kovalchuk has been known as a perimeter player. Hall is the exact opposite.

Heatley is not good defensively while Eberle is.

Savard and RNH are not even close. Savard is a decent play maker but that's where the comparison ends.

After Atlanta's high choices, their drafting wasn't great. The Oilers have a lot of solid prospects that weren't in the top 10.

The Oilers also have a group of veteran forwards to take the pressure off of the younger players.

Then there is the finanical commitment from ownership and the fan bases that really sets these teams paths apart.

Getting back to the injuries, if the Oilers were relatively healthy for all of their key players for a season while the Flames key players got injured, it would be the Flames drafting high while the Oilers would be battling for a playoff spot.

If at all possible, if the Oilers can address something like their medical staff, dietitian and or sports psychologist that would help significantly reduce injuries to the team, that would be the best move the Oilers could do in the off season.

If just Kiprusoff missed most of the season, the Flames would be done. Combine Iginla and Bouwmeester and they would be in a battle for 1st overall.

*edit - Savard's playing style is closer to Gagner's

[Crzydrvr]

This is meant to be an Oilers, Oilers vs Flames thread.

You are looking for similarities in Atlanta because it is convenient to do so. You can almost take any team with a good 1st line and say it's similar. Kovalchuk, Heatley and Savard are far different players than Hall, Eberle and RNH. All of the 3 players you mentioned in Atlanta are known to have attitude problems in one form or another. Savard was also in a different age bracket compared th Kovalchuk and Heatley.

Kovalchuk has been known as a perimeter player. Hall is the exact opposite.

Heatley is not good defensively while Eberle is.

Savard and RNH are not even close. Savard is a decent play maker but that's where the comparison ends.

After Atlanta's high choices, their drafting wasn't great. The Oilers have a lot of solid prospects that weren't in the top 10.

The Oilers also have a group of veteran forwards to take the pressure off of the younger players.

Then there is the finanical commitment from ownership and the fan bases that really sets these teams paths apart.

Getting back to the injuries, if the Oilers were relatively healthy for all of their key players for a season while the Flames key players got injured, it would be the Flames drafting high while the Oilers would be battling for a playoff spot.

If at all possible, if the Oilers can address something like their medical staff, dietitian and or sports psychologist that would help significantly reduce injuries to the team, that would be the best move the Oilers could do in the off season.

If just Kiprusoff missed most of the season, the Flames would be done. Combine Iginla and Bouwmeester and they would be in a battle for 1st overall.

*edit - Savard's playing style is closer to Gagner's

I did not mention Heatley. I mentioned Hossa. Heatley was from one of my previous posts. And I'm not sure but I don't think Hossa has any issues with attitude whatsoever.

Until RNH and Co. starts scoring 95+ points I think I would wait and see on who really is better. RNH started hot and tailed off to the point where he had 35 points in 39 games. Not bad. But considering he was a top 5 scorer at one point it's a drastic dropoff. Savard was 29, not exactly old. He was still in his prime. Maybe RNH could do better than that at 29, maybe he won't even last til then.

Funny you should mention veteran, because the Thrashers had a veteran defense corps. And Bobby Holik. And Scott Mellanby. Slava Kozlov, Peter Bondra, Keith Tkachuk. What do the Oilers have? Hemsky, Horcoff, Smyth, Belanger? No offense, but beyond Smyth, the Thrashers had the better veteran savvy. Not to mention Savard.

Now as for the rest of the post, you are just sending out "what-ifs". If Kipper, if Iginla, if Bouwmeester....well, they aren't. Of course if your best players go down you're going to fail. That goes for the Oilers too. They started off great, then teams started cracking down and the depth of the team just wasn't enough to keep going. It's not like Eberle has missed significant time this year, and that's basically comparable to Iginla. And Eberle has OUTPLAYED Iginla. Not to mention you guys have Hall and RNH and Hemsky, whereas Calgary counters with a bunch of second line forwards.

We already admitted that the difference between us and you was that we had Kiprusoff. Guess what? Having a great goalie means having a better team. You insist on separating the two, but if we did that to the Oilers, what would that do? Just looking at the Oilers roster and nothing else, it looks comparable to Calgary despite all that youth. So what makes you think that you could compete? Unless you find a Kiprusoff (highly unlikely, it was lucky enough to find the first one) and he turns things around, you're stuck sitting there and saying "Well you guys have Kipper of course you would do better", which we basically already know.

I'm sorry, but BECAUSE of the fact that your top players are young, you are suffering the effects of having tailoff from fatigue. If all our guys are injured then yes we sink like a stone like every other team that has been decimated by injuries to their star players (like NJ last year for example). But if the Oilers were completely healthy, do you actually think they'd compete for a playoff spot? No secondary scoring, Dubnyk and Khabibulin in between the pipes, and an average defense? They'd maybe be at the tail end, and that would be a maybe due to the stronger West.

[DirtyDeeds]

The thing is Flames fans fail to realize the differences in the injury situations of the two teams the last couple of seasons.

Oilers - Hall missed 17 games last season, 10 this season. Eberle missed 13 last season, 4 this season. RNH missed 19 games this season.

Flames - Iginla missed 0 games the last 3 seasons. Jokinen missed 3 games last season. Tanguay and Glencross missed 15 and 16 this season but only 3 last season.

Oilers - Whitney missed 47 games last season, 21 this season but only playing 80%.

Flames - Bouwmeester missed 0 games since joining the Flames.

Oilers - Khabibulin missed lots of time last season and the season prior. Is out now for a week or two.

Flames - Kiprusoff has played 70+ games for the Flames the last 6 seasons.

I would like to see the Flames do if they had to lose their leading scorers, their best defender or their starting goaltender.

Oilers this year around 200 mans games. Flames around 250... try again

Injuries are excuses to lose. If your coaches or management, allow the players to use it as an excuse then you will lose. Telling your players it is okay to lose be it injuries or to go for a pick cements a losing attitude that is near impossible to correct.

[ConnorFutureGM]

Oilers this year around 200 mans games. Flames around 250... try again

Injuries are excuses to lose. If your coaches or management, allow the players to use it as an excuse then you will lose. Telling your players it is okay to lose be it injuries or to go for a pick cements a losing attitude that is near impossible to correct.

There's a difference between Kiprusoff, Iginla and Bouwmeester going down compared to Moss. Use some common sense.

When is it an excuse? It is what it is. A teams depth is tested when their star players go down. The Flames season of injuries is coming.

[ConnorFutureGM]

I did not mention Heatley. I mentioned Hossa. Heatley was from one of my previous posts. And I'm not sure but I don't think Hossa has any issues with attitude whatsoever.

Until RNH and Co. starts scoring 95+ points I think I would wait and see on who really is better. RNH started hot and tailed off to the point where he had 35 points in 39 games. Not bad. But considering he was a top 5 scorer at one point it's a drastic dropoff. Savard was 29, not exactly old. He was still in his prime. Maybe RNH could do better than that at 29, maybe he won't even last til then.

Funny you should mention veteran, because the Thrashers had a veteran defense corps. And Bobby Holik. And Scott Mellanby. Slava Kozlov, Peter Bondra, Keith Tkachuk. What do the Oilers have? Hemsky, Horcoff, Smyth, Belanger? No offense, but beyond Smyth, the Thrashers had the better veteran savvy. Not to mention Savard.

Now as for the rest of the post, you are just sending out "what-ifs". If Kipper, if Iginla, if Bouwmeester....well, they aren't. Of course if your best players go down you're going to fail. That goes for the Oilers too. They started off great, then teams started cracking down and the depth of the team just wasn't enough to keep going. It's not like Eberle has missed significant time this year, and that's basically comparable to Iginla. And Eberle has OUTPLAYED Iginla. Not to mention you guys have Hall and RNH and Hemsky, whereas Calgary counters with a bunch of second line forwards.

We already admitted that the difference between us and you was that we had Kiprusoff. Guess what? Having a great goalie means having a better team. You insist on separating the two, but if we did that to the Oilers, what would that do? Just looking at the Oilers roster and nothing else, it looks comparable to Calgary despite all that youth. So what makes you think that you could compete? Unless you find a Kiprusoff (highly unlikely, it was lucky enough to find the first one) and he turns things around, you're stuck sitting there and saying "Well you guys have Kipper of course you would do better", which we basically already know.

I'm sorry, but BECAUSE of the fact that your top players are young, you are suffering the effects of having tailoff from fatigue. If all our guys are injured then yes we sink like a stone like every other team that has been decimated by injuries to their star players (like NJ last year for example). But if the Oilers were completely healthy, do you actually think they'd compete for a playoff spot? No secondary scoring, Dubnyk and Khabibulin in between the pipes, and an average defense? They'd maybe be at the tail end, and that would be a maybe due to the stronger West.

- What about Gagner, Jones and Eager? Gagner is producing good numbers and the other two are providing seconadry scoring.

- It's funny because the references you're using to compare the Oilers to Atlanta is the year they made the playoffs. They had 97 points that season.

- IMO, the Oilers have better skaters than the Flames. The Oilers are beating the Flames is goal differential, it's the Flames ability to win close games that's the difference. I think the Oilers only won one game this season when tied after two periods. Oilers also have a much better powerplay then the Flames and only a slighly lower penalty kill. That's why I don't think the Oilers are that bad.

- If the Oilers can haev a goalie who doesn't steal games but doesn't lose games, they'll be ok.

- Yes. I think the Oilers could've competed, probably not have made it but be in the mix this season if they stayed relatively healthy the whole season.

[DirtyDeeds]

There's a difference between Kiprusoff, Iginla and Bouwmeester going down compared to Moss. Use some common sense.

When is it an excuse? It is what it is. A teams depth is tested when their star players go down. The Flames season of injuries is coming.

You are too much Conner. Your Oilers in your mind do everything better than the Flames. EVEN Injuries.. lolol

To start with you shouldn't ever mention JBo with injuries. He is the NHL's leading Ironman. Funny how Oilers Fans wouldn't dare to want him on your team, because he sucks but when you need to throw him out as an example of him being such a big part of our team, that is a whole different story, then he is suddenly comparable to your RNH.

As to the comment Flames day will come, it has, We are way ahead of you in man hours lost, way ahead of you this year and it makes little difference who, because for us it is a combo of top and middle players. Sure Iggy(Iggy I believe manned up at start of the season and played with his back spazm problems) and Kipper didn't go down or JBO so what, you still have to fill the position from your farm.

You guys believe that one reason you dropped from standings after your big start is injuries. Your coach said it in interview when we beat you earlier in your barn. So your team is being told that. Your team is just allowing the injuries to become an excuse.

[ConnorFutureGM]

You are too much Conner. Your Oilers in your mind do everything better than the Flames. EVEN Injuries.. lolol

To start with you shouldn't ever mention JBo with injuries. He is the NHL's leading Ironman. Funny how Oilers Fans wouldn't dare to want him on your team, because he sucks but when you need to throw him out as an example of him being such a big part of our team, that is a whole different story, then he is suddenly comparable to your RNH.

As to the comment Flames day will come, it has, We are way ahead of you in man hours lost, way ahead of you this year and it makes little difference who, because for us it is a combo of top and middle players. Sure Iggy(Iggy I believe manned up at start of the season and played with his back spazm problems) and Kipper didn't go down or JBO so what, you still have to fill the position from your farm.

You guys believe that one reason you dropped from standings after your big start is injuries. Your coach said it in interview when we beat you earlier in your barn. So your team is being told that. Your team is just allowing the injuries to become an excuse.

How is it an excuse? It is what it is.

If a team loses a utility player, it's much easier to replace than a star player. You will say it's an excuse until the Flames have a signigicant injury to a significant player.

[senor_incendiarse]

How is it an excuse? It is what it is.

If a team loses a utility player, it's much easier to replace than a star player. You will say it's an excuse until the Flames have a signigicant injury to a significant player.

Glencross, Tanguay and Giordano aren't significant players.

[DirtyDeeds]

Glencross, Tanguay and Giordano aren't significant players.

and add Butler who has spent 95% of his time on Ice partnered with JBo. While I don't put him as a top player he has been filling that position.

shhhhh He doesn't get it. No need to burst his bubble.

[ConnorFutureGM]

What happens if:

Iginla goes down: the key to the Flames offence

Bouwmeester goes down: plays the most minutes of any player

Kiprusoff goes down: the player who won games at least 5 games for the Flames single handedly

If any of these players go down for the majority of the season, Flames are well out of the playoff mix. If they all go down at once, Flames are worse than Columbus.

[DirtyDeeds]

What happens if:

Iginla goes down: the key to the Flames offence

Bouwmeester goes down: plays the most minutes of any player

Kiprusoff goes down: the player who won games at least 5 games for the Flames single handedly

If any of these players go down for the majority of the season, Flames are well out of the playoff mix. If they all go down at once, Flames are worse than Columbus.

You are way too tied up with "what if's" Conner. Until those types of things actually happen there is little reason to believe it will happen. There is no "Sky is Falling", there is no link to Mayan Calendar 'Doomsday' Date and Flames Demise this year because of "What ifs".

[Crzydrvr]

- What about Gagner, Jones and Eager? Gagner is producing good numbers and the other two are providing seconadry scoring.

- It's funny because the references you're using to compare the Oilers to Atlanta is the year they made the playoffs. They had 97 points that season.

- IMO, the Oilers have better skaters than the Flames. The Oilers are beating the Flames is goal differential, it's the Flames ability to win close games that's the difference. I think the Oilers only won one game this season when tied after two periods. Oilers also have a much better powerplay then the Flames and only a slighly lower penalty kill. That's why I don't think the Oilers are that bad.

- If the Oilers can haev a goalie who doesn't steal games but doesn't lose games, they'll be ok.

- Yes. I think the Oilers could've competed, probably not have made it but be in the mix this season if they stayed relatively healthy the whole season.

-Jones was a Preds castoff who is on pace to reach earthshattering numbers of 18 goals and 33 points. Amazing. Meanwhile, Eager is a tough guy who has conveniently potted the odd goal. Haven't seen that one before, maybe he took lessons from Raffi Torres. Gagner is the only one of that bunch who is a legit top 6 option, but he's in the midst of a hot streak which skews the judging process both ways.

The Oilers have 2 scoring lines and then Horcoff, Eager, Paajarvi, Jones, Belanger, Hordichuk and a rotating door of rookies. Not exactly the most earth shattering team in terms of depth up front. Meanwhile, their back end is led by Ryan Whitney (now oft-injured), Ladislav Smid, and Tom Gilbert (who was on the Oilers chopping block not too long ago), while Corey Potter, Jeff Petry, Andy Sutton, Cam Barker and Theo Peckham round out the depth. Your highest scoring defenseman is Potter with 18 points in 43 games, not to mention his -14 mark playing big minutes for Edmonton.

-Atlanta had seasons of 90 and 97 points in a weaker conference, playing 32 games in a weaker division. Whereas Edmonton has the fortune of playing against Vancouver and yes Calgary 8 times a season. Not to mention the Kings, the Coyotes, the Wild, the Avs, the Blackhawks, and the Ducks, all of whom they'd have to fight with for playoff contention.

-The Oilers are top heavy. Your coach can choose between Hall, Hemsky, Gagner, Eberle, RNH, Horcoff and Smyth up front; Whitney, Potter, Gilbert and Smid have been rotating the points. Meanwhile, the Flames basically had Iginla, Glencross, Tanguay, Jokinen and Giordano for most of the season. Our second PP unit at one point consisted of Stajan, Kostopoulos, Kolanos, Brodie and Bouwmeester. So obviously the Oilers win on the PP, when it's two minutes of just throwing your skill players on the ice, the Oilers have more of those types of players.

-The Oilers have a goalie right now that doesn't steal or lose games. In fact they have two. How far did that get you. Great teams have goalies that can steal games, and most other teams (that are actually somewhat decent) have goalies that can get hot for stretches. You're competing against Kiprusoff, Backstrom, Luongo, Varlamov and that's just in your own division. Howard, Rinne, Smith, Hiller, Niemi, Quick, Lehtonen, and the St. Louis tandem of Halak and Elliott are all better than what you have now. They're also conveniently all goalies that can steal games. A goalie that doesn't steal games but doesn't lose them is Corey Crawford in Chicago, and they're not doing that good with him either, so what makes you think the Oilers can do better than a Phoenix with half-assed goaltending when the Blackhawks are struggling to do the same with a better roster in every position?

The NHL has changed. There are lots of teams with high quality goalies hanging around, if a team wants to compete in the NHL nowadays that team needs a similar quality netminder just to put itself in the hunt. The Oilers don't have that, nor do they have the system to make average goalies look great a la the Phoenix Coyotes.

[ConnorFutureGM]

You are way too tied up with "what if's" Conner. Until those types of things actually happen there is little reason to believe it will happen. There is no "Sky is Falling", there is no link to Mayan Calendar 'Doomsday' Date and Flames Demise this year because of "What ifs".

if Kiprusoff goes down for a season, Oilers are better than Flames.

[Crzydrvr]

if Kiprusoff goes down for a season, Oilers are better than Flames.

Hmm, maybe not if Irving and Karlsson continue to play the way they have in the games they were given.

Whereas if Khabibulin went down for a season, the Oilers would be even worse than they are now. Obviously if your starting goalie went down you'd be facing an uphill battle. Maybe Dubnyk and Irving and Karlsson would be able to fill the void, maybe not.

How many teams would be able to avoid the gutter if their starting goalie went down for an entire season? Do you think the Rangers would still be in contention? How about Pittsburgh? Or Detroit? Nashville, New Jersey, Montreal, Phoenix, Dallas, Minnesota, Ottawa, Los Angeles? Obviously not, despite what you imply we're not the only ones who'd be screwed if a Lundqvist or a Quick went down.

[DirtyDeeds]

if Kiprusoff goes down for a season, Oilers are better than Flames.

Self Proclaimed Village Idiot.

I guess I'm a village idiot.

If's, .... For every if you throw our way none will likely be true and there is the counter for Oilers. Is that all you got Conner.. If's ???

If Kipper went down Irving would come up. If they didn't play too well then we would trade for a suitable starter.

If you had no internet Conner life would be so much better.

If Oilers changed out the ugly Jerseys the team might play better.

If your coach stays concussed they might win a few more

If you Owners actually spent a bit of money they might have some D.

If the Oilers needed to sell tickets they wouldn't suck so bad.

Big if's:(close to truisms)

If the Oilers can't beg borrow or steal a few NHL calibre D then they won't move up the standings ever let alone anytime soon.

If the Oilers don't find some Average+ Starting Goaltenders soon, they won't be going anywhere.

Having a lot of Top picks is nothing to be proud of. They aren't Like Stanley Cups to be shown off, they are badges to show how bad your team was. More Badges is telling the world you sucked Big Time, for a long long time.

[ConnorFutureGM]

-Jones was a Preds castoff who is on pace to reach earthshattering numbers of 18 goals and 33 points. Amazing. Meanwhile, Eager is a tough guy who has conveniently potted the odd goal. Haven't seen that one before, maybe he took lessons from Raffi Torres. Gagner is the only one of that bunch who is a legit top 6 option, but he's in the midst of a hot streak which skews the judging process both ways.

The Oilers have 2 scoring lines and then Horcoff, Eager, Paajarvi, Jones, Belanger, Hordichuk and a rotating door of rookies. Not exactly the most earth shattering team in terms of depth up front. Meanwhile, their back end is led by Ryan Whitney (now oft-injured), Ladislav Smid, and Tom Gilbert (who was on the Oilers chopping block not too long ago), while Corey Potter, Jeff Petry, Andy Sutton, Cam Barker and Theo Peckham round out the depth. Your highest scoring defenseman is Potter with 18 points in 43 games, not to mention his -14 mark playing big minutes for Edmonton.

-Atlanta had seasons of 90 and 97 points in a weaker conference, playing 32 games in a weaker division. Whereas Edmonton has the fortune of playing against Vancouver and yes Calgary 8 times a season. Not to mention the Kings, the Coyotes, the Wild, the Avs, the Blackhawks, and the Ducks, all of whom they'd have to fight with for playoff contention.

-The Oilers are top heavy. Your coach can choose between Hall, Hemsky, Gagner, Eberle, RNH, Horcoff and Smyth up front; Whitney, Potter, Gilbert and Smid have been rotating the points. Meanwhile, the Flames basically had Iginla, Glencross, Tanguay, Jokinen and Giordano for most of the season. Our second PP unit at one point consisted of Stajan, Kostopoulos, Kolanos, Brodie and Bouwmeester. So obviously the Oilers win on the PP, when it's two minutes of just throwing your skill players on the ice, the Oilers have more of those types of players.

-The Oilers have a goalie right now that doesn't steal or lose games. In fact they have two. How far did that get you. Great teams have goalies that can steal games, and most other teams (that are actually somewhat decent) have goalies that can get hot for stretches. You're competing against Kiprusoff, Backstrom, Luongo, Varlamov and that's just in your own division. Howard, Rinne, Smith, Hiller, Niemi, Quick, Lehtonen, and the St. Louis tandem of Halak and Elliott are all better than what you have now. They're also conveniently all goalies that can steal games. A goalie that doesn't steal games but doesn't lose them is Corey Crawford in Chicago, and they're not doing that good with him either, so what makes you think the Oilers can do better than a Phoenix with half-assed goaltending when the Blackhawks are struggling to do the same with a better roster in every position?

The NHL has changed. There are lots of teams with high quality goalies hanging around, if a team wants to compete in the NHL nowadays that team needs a similar quality netminder just to put itself in the hunt. The Oilers don't have that, nor do they have the system to make average goalies look great a la the Phoenix Coyotes.

- Not sure if you were being sarcastic or not. You compared forward and forward depth in two paragraphs followed by defensive depth in the same. Lets go skater by skater comparison of each of the teams with no injuries.

LW

1. Hall vs. Tanguay/Cammalleri WINNER: Hall

2. Smyth vs. Tanguay/Cammalleri WINNER: Tanguay/Cammalleri

3. Jones vs. Glencross WINNER: Glencross

4. Eager vs. Kostopoulos WINNER: Eager

C

1. RNH vs. Jokinen WINNER: RNH

2. Gagner vs. Backlund WINNER: Gagner

3. Horcoff vs. Jones WINNER: Horcoff

4. Belanger vs. Horak WINNER: Belanger

RW

1. Eberle vs. Iginla. WINNER: Eberle

2. Hemsky vs. Stempnial WINNER: Hemsky

3. Paajarvi vs. Comeau WINNER: Paajarvi

4. Petrell vs. Moss WINNER: Moss

D

1. Whitney vs. Bouwmeester WINNER: Bouwmeester

2. Petry vs. Giordano WINNER: Giordano

3. Smid vs. Butler WINNER: Smid

4. Gilbert vs. Hannan WINNER: Gilbert

5. Sutton vs. Brodie WINNER: Brodie

6. Potter vs. Sarich WINNER: Sarich

G.

Khabibulin vs. Kiprusoff WINNER: Kiprusoff

Dubnyk vs. Karlsson WINNER: Dubnyk

- I'm sure you'll disagree with some players.

- A goalie who doesn't steal but doesn't lose games is a goalie who makes the save at the right time. Niemi is a good example of that. Crawford last year was but this year he isn't. Howard out of Detroit is also like that. The average league save % is supposed to be .917. If the Oilers as a team had the league average save % they would have 155 goals against instead of 178. It would also give them a +8 goal differential which would be better than the two 8th place and lower teams in both conferences.

[Crzydrvr]

- A goalie who doesn't steal but doesn't lose games is a goalie who makes the save at the right time. Niemi is a good example of that. Crawford last year was but this year he isn't. Howard out of Detroit is also like that. The average league save % is supposed to be .917. If the Oilers as a team had the league average save % they would have 155 goals against instead of 178. It would also give them a +8 goal differential which would be better than the two 8th place and lower teams in both conferences.

Khabibulin is exactly the type of goalie you are talking about. I don't know if you just really hate him or not, but here's a link for you: Khabibulin Stats Game by Game

Despite a horrid two and a half months from the team in front of him (resulting in a severe dip in stats from his sparkling .960 S% in the first month), he's still got a .914 S%, playing in front of the second-worst team in the league. He's the type of goalie who won't steal games but "makes the right saves at the right times". Which apparently you would be able to compete for a playoff spot with. Heck, he's got a better statsline than Niemi does, and Niemi plays for the SJ Sharks for god's sake.

If you're expecting the Oilers to be able to compete with a Niemi in net, I'm sorry to say you're completely delusional. San Jose wins IN SPITE of Niemi, because they have one of the deepest rosters in the league. And even with Jumbo Joe and Co., they're happily fighting it out with Phoenix and LA for 3rd in the West, while being on pace for 98 points in the regular season. The Oilers are not a good enough team to require merely "mortal" goaltending. When Khabibulin was playing godly Greco-Olympian hockey early on in the season, the Oilers were damn good, but now that he's back to being merely "good", the Oilers have crumbled.

[Flyerfan52]

Does Connor remind anyone else of Derf?

[Crzydrvr]

Does Connor remind anyone else of Derf?

Derf was really irrational. At least Connor's arguments are somewhat logical. Even if they are pretty repetitive.

[Flame111]

Does Connor remind anyone else of Derf?

Derf wasn't serious, Connor is.

There is some seriously pent-up frustration up in Edmonton with some fans. This will be six years in a row missing the playoffs and the last three in absolute dead last, that is hard on a fan base that cares about their team.

If the Oilers actually get to playoff contention we should brace ourself for potentially a new wave of Canuck like trolls to emerge from the depths. This year they have disappeared but remember those few years before?

There is serious hockey envy of Calgary going on with some of them. I hope Edm stays classy but we will see… No D this off-season and they will continue to flounder.

[oillio]

Derf wasn't serious, Connor is.

There is some seriously pent-up frustration up in Edmonton with some fans. This will be six years in a row missing the playoffs and the last three in absolute dead last, that is hard on a fan base that cares about their team.

If the Oilers actually get to playoff contention we should brace ourself for potentially a new wave of Canuck like trolls to emerge from the depths. This year they have disappeared but remember those few years before?

There is serious hockey envy of Calgary going on with some of them. I hope Edm stays classy but we will see… No D this off-season and they will continue to flounder.

ummm what?

dont kid yourself, no fan envies calgary.

[ConnorFutureGM]

There is some seriously pent-up frustration up in Edmonton with some fans. This will be six years in a row missing the playoffs and the last three in absolute dead last, that is hard on a fan base that cares about their team.

If the Oilers actually get to playoff contention we should brace ourself for potentially a new wave of Canuck like trolls to emerge from the depths. This year they have disappeared but remember those few years before?

There is serious hockey envy of Calgary going on with some of them. I hope Edm stays classy but we will see… No D this off-season and they will continue to flounder.

Yeah, what are you talking about?

First off, the majority of fans know this is a process. Oiler games are exciting to watch. The frustrating part was December and January where we a lot of players were injured and the AHL call ups weren't ready.

I came on here well before the Oilers were good so I have every right to continue to come on here and show the difference between a rebuilding team (Oilers) and a team trying to hold on to the playoffs by a thread (you guessed it, Flames).

No one has envy for the Flames. They're unlikely to miss the playoffs again and have a weak prospect pool. They refuse to assess their long term future. Next year is when the Oilers will surpass the Flames, especially if Feaster has to do his "win at all cost" strategy that's worked so well this deadline.