Oilers

[ConnorFutureGM]

I knew the Oilers would get high off of a single victory, but I didn't expect this level of name-calling in the thread.

First off, I'd say dissing on Kipper is the one thing you will get killed for here down south. You can say all you want about everything else, but if you touch Kipper that's just going too far. Or are you just jealous that we have a guy who can steal games for an average team?

If marginally better means that we're consistently a 5-10th place team, then I'll take it. Usually guarantees we're 5 spots ahead of you in the West anyways. Free agents don't want to be the guy behind a young and playing like crap team, they'd rather be the frontrunner on a competing team. That's why Richards took a serious look at us last summer (that and the $$$ we offered). You think he'd give the same attention to the Oilers for the same or even more $$$? Probably not.

Last time I checked, the LA Kings have made the playoffs only to be punted out in the first round each time. They're consistently a 6th-10th team. Sounds an awful lot like a team we have. Except that we made the playoffs for a longer streak before tailing off. Their prospect pool is arguably even worse than ours, our team is only marginally older, and the only reasons we both compete are because our goalies have to play lights out due to the fact that we are both slow. I don't see how LA is doing so good, especially since they have cap issues whereas our situation improves drastically over the next 2 years.

Let's look at the three situations you named Connor. Let's do that. We're going to look at each subjectively here.

1. Atlanta: Tanked 4 years and got the 1st overall 1999 (Patrik Stefan), 2nd overall in 2000 (Dany Heatley), the 1st in 2001 (Ilya Kovalchuk) and another 2nd overall (Kari Lehtonen). Kovalchuk and Heatley made their debuts and both did better than any Oilers youngster did in a tighter checking NHL. Second year, Heatley broke out and developed into a star while Kovalchuk improved on his own pace significantly. Everyone said that they were a team on the rise and that with two young superstars, they'd be contenders. 3rd year, Heatley starts slow, then gets into an accident that kills a teammate and takes him out of commission for the rest of the year before he requests a trade out of Atlanta. Kovalchuk develops into a star but still no playoffs. They end up trading Heatley for Hossa and despite having Hossa, Kovalchuk, Marc Savard, Slava Kozlov, and Kari Lehtonen, they fail to get anywhere over the next three seasons (beyond a first round powder by the lower seeded NY Rangers). Hossa gets traded, Savard signs with Boston, Lehtonen never met expectations and was traded, Stefan was a disappointment, and despite his years of service to the Thrashers Kovalchuk finally gives up on the cause and gets dealt to NJ.

That team had no defense, their goaltending was better than the Oilers and it still wasn't good enough despite having over a PPG players like Kozlov, Kovalchuk, Hossa, Heatley, and Savard at various points over 7 seasons. Scoring sensations, no D, and average goaltending. Sound familiar?

2. Columbus: Numerous top picks. It reads like a list of some of the biggest busts in recent NHL draft history: Picard (8th), Zherdev (4th), Brule (6th), Leclaire (8th), Filatov (6th). They had goaltending (Leclaire and Mason both had good seasons at one point for the BJs), they had scoring at various points over their tenure, but what's left now? Nash and Brassard are the only forwards from the old regime still around. Moore is the only defenseman. Beyond Brassard, Nash, and a small number of role players (Vermette, Dorsett) basically everyone else there looks like they want to play their way out of the NHL. Or at least out of Columbus. Luckily they managed to get out of the woods once before getting spanked by the Red Wings in 4 straight.

Nash was supposed to be their centerpiece. Now he's getting shopped around because every one else that was supposed to be around him failed. I personally still believe he should stay in Columbus but I'm not Scott Howson. And Howson already has a history of a gambler and making questionable decisions.

3. Islanders: The most mishandled team to ever exist in the NHL (though those 1990s Lightning teams could give them a run for their money). They've actually done pretty well for themselves lately, despite the apparent mishandling of both Josh Bailey and Nino Niederreiter. Nabokov is a solid NHL tender with comparable stats to Kipper this season. That hasn't stopped them from remaining in the both 5 of the league. Despite all-world play from Tavares, the rest of the lineup has been perennialy underwhelming.

Laugh all you want about our love affair with Kipper, but you won/t be laughing after you find yourselves in a similar spot to Atlanta or Columbus someday. Both those teams spent plenty of money too, and it didn/t get them far. In fact, the BJs are spending money RIGHT NOW to stay in the basement. It's an almost impossible task of trying to get over the hurdle and it needs a lot to fall into place. A goalie stepping up (Fleury and Niemi for example), a great D (Gonchar, Gill, Orpik , Letang , Goligoski and Scuderi for Pens; Seabrook, Keith, Hjalmarsson, and co. in ChiTown) and a great coach (Quenneville and Bylsma). The Oilers are hoping for something similar but so far the results are nil.

None of the current contending teams are rebuild-by-scorched earth methods beyond Pittsburgh. And they spent YEARS wandering through the forest building up depth before that final push over the top. Every other team has constantly retooled itself. I honestly don't know how much potential is good for, but if it's not in the right organization then you may as well kiss it goodbye. I don't doubt that Eberle, Hall and Company are going to be real good, I just doubt whether the TEAM will be any good. And history's shown us that teams who tank without the prerequisite depth on D and in net oftentimes fail to ever reach anything a la Florida, Atlanta, and NY. They have star players, but those star players basically waste their years away because nothing ever comes that pulls the rest of the depth out of a ditch.

- Free agents want to play with players who can win

- You're being highly speculative on the Richards ordeal. He didn't sign in Calgary even though Feaster made a big pitch, case closed.

- LA has much better prospects and a much younger team than the Flames. The Kings have depth at centre and defence and have a goalie who's playing just as good as Kiprusoff at a much younger age.

- Here's the big difference between the failed rebuilds that Flames fans like to compare to the Oilers: those teams were in vastly different markets then the Oilers. Their owners were all trying to save money and their fan bases needed wins NOW. The Oilers have a loyal fan base win or lose. They also have a smart fan base that understands that a winning team isn't created out of free agency. The Oilers owner spends a lot of money for the benefit of the Oilers. He's willing to bury contracts, spend to have a successful AHL team and spend a lof of money on scouting and development. None of the failed rebuilds had this, the successful ones did.

Define marginally for me. In the last 5.5 seasons the Flames have 117 more points than the Oilers IMO thats not marginally better, thats much much better. No Flames fans are bragging about any recent success because obviously there is none, but you make it seem that we can't brag about being dominant in recent history against our top rival.

Missing the playoffs is missing the playoffs

[Flyerfan52]

Oh i wasn't stating Wellwood was bad.. i liked him on our team. I was definitely in the camp that knew you'll grow to love the guy... how can you not! (Upgrading the 3rd line center position for the canucks was an organizational need at the time... just needed to get to get bigger and faster that particular position, so in came Malhotra. Would not of minded keeping him, but there was no room)

My tangent...

- Back to FF52 and Wellwood for a sec.. is his scouting report still the same?

- Elite level hands, high IQ, great on faceoffs, good passer, good defensively and getting in passing lanes, good shot but doesn't get it off enough..

..will win occasional board battles with his stick, but get knocked off his skates a lot (especially corners), makes weak/soft/touch passes that get picked off leading to turnovers?

Are those still his general pros and cons?

I still see Wellwood much the same. But on a team that doesn't have great offense from the front (3 of the top 10 point getters are D) he's tied for 3rd with Buff for most points (although Buff missed 14 games). He's among the better 1s of a not great bunch of forwards.

& Vancouver did the right thing opting for Malhotra over Wellwood. That filled a need where Wellwood was only depth.

With the Jets Wellwood plays on a higher line & gets more minutes then he ever would with the Canucks. He's top 6 while he would have been bottom 6 in BC. Canucks have 6 or more forwards better then him. Wpg. doesn't.

[Anie8706]

next tangent for the conversation... which team had the better expansion yr.

Nah, which one had the best third jersey's.

[Crzydrvr]

- Free agents want to play with players who can win

- You're being highly speculative on the Richards ordeal. He didn't sign in Calgary even though Feaster made a big pitch, case closed.

- LA has much better prospects and a much younger team than the Flames. The Kings have depth at centre and defence and have a goalie who's playing just as good as Kiprusoff at a much younger age.

- Here's the big difference between the failed rebuilds that Flames fans like to compare to the Oilers: those teams were in vastly different markets then the Oilers. Their owners were all trying to save money and their fan bases needed wins NOW. The Oilers have a loyal fan base win or lose. They also have a smart fan base that understands that a winning team isn't created out of free agency. The Oilers owner spends a lot of money for the benefit of the Oilers. He's willing to bury contracts, spend to have a successful AHL team and spend a lof of money on scouting and development. None of the failed rebuilds had this, the successful ones did.

Missing the playoffs is missing the playoffs

-Exactly. FAs want to play with players who win. So far the Oilers aren't doing that. Whereas guys come to Calgary and no matter what goes down, they know they're competing for a playoff spot and are excited to jump on board.

-Everything is speculation unless it happens in reality. Fact is you made a claim that players want to sign on with players that win. Richards gave a MASSIVE amount of consideration to the Calgary offer, he even admitted it publicly. Obviously that means that he felt that there was an opportunity to win here judging by your comment.

NHL Average Age Numbers 2011-12

-Flames are 23rd in the league at 28.3 years. LA checks in at 5 with 26.6. Now look at the teams grouped around Calgary. DET, PIT, WSH, FLO, VAN, PHX, ANA, NJ and TB. That is not bad company. Now look at the teams grouped around LA: COL, EDM, TOR, NSH, NYR, BUF, CAR, WPG, MIN, CBJ. There are some good teams in both categories. So why is it a disadvantage to be older? You even said that's how Calgary always beats Edmonton, because Calgary's veterans know how to win. And while there are good teams at both ends of the age spectrum, there's a higher concentration of contenders at the top of it and not the bottom.

-Columbus wasn't trying to save money this year. Atlanta wasn't exactly saving that much when the Big 5 was still there. Edmonton may be spending money on scouting, but when you're topping out all the time on the draft podium it doesn't necessarily matter how much money you put into scouting. A la Pittsburgh with Crosby, Malkin, Staal. And just because you spend more on scouting doesn't mean you'll end up with the late round steals. Again, Pittsburgh's shoestring budget nabbed them Letang in the third, Goligoski in the mid rounds. Buffalo pulled out some great draft classes despite only having video scouting for so long, Ennis, Adam, and Myers were pulled out of the 2008 draft alone with that method.

The Oilers have one thing going for them where the others failed and that is a loyal fan base. I commend you for that, at the very least I can respect a guy who lives and dies by his team and I'd rather have a hardcore Oilers fan than a boathopper. But you have to wonder how long that can last, should it get to that 5,6,7 year point. It's not like neither the Flames or the Oilers have gone down this path before, those 1990s to early 2000s years were real lean on both sides. TBH I don't know whether you can remember those days since you call everyone an oldtimer which leads me to assuming you're quite young, but Flames attendance slumped to 13000 in those days, Oilers not much better. If nothing else, Darryl Sutter ignited a fanbase and if it weren't for him, who knows whether the Flames would still be in Calgary or not.

Do you think you can stand watching hope for 7 years? Cause that is what we went through with Iginla for so long. There were false starts, like Valeri Bure, like Marc Savard but somehow they never panned out to completion. And those guys had some real good seasons at some point for the Flames.

[UnrefinedCrude]

Then how can you guys be so damn smug about how successful your franchise will be if you concede the team will actually continue to fail to the point it gets it's management fired?

How can you be so sure Edm will take steps to improve their weaknesses when you don't even know who will be in charge of making those changes?

Well... i guess you are taking the 'it can't much worse' approach?

The people in place have done what needed to be done. The new boss is one of the most successful businessmen in Canada. He will fid the right people for each phase of the rebuild.

[returnofthejets]

The Oilers owner spends a lot of money for the benefit of the Oilers.

Cheer leaders.

[DL44]

- Free agents want to play with players who can win

Exactly, that's the point.

It will be one of the primary hurdles for the Oilers to acquire quality depth to surround the draft picks. They won't come till the Oilers look like they are on the verge of going somewhere. Why would they.

[Anie8706]

The people in place have done what needed to be done. The new boss is one of the most successful businessmen in Canada. He will fid the right people for each phase of the rebuild.

And yet the guy chose to keep Lowe to learn more about the business side of hockey.

[ConnorFutureGM]

-Exactly. FAs want to play with players who win. So far the Oilers aren't doing that. Whereas guys come to Calgary and no matter what goes down, they know they're competing for a playoff spot and are excited to jump on board.

Who has Calgary brought in? Hannan? The Flames have not acquired any more big name free agents than the Oilers.

-Everything is speculation unless it happens in reality. Fact is you made a claim that players want to sign on with players that win. Richards gave a MASSIVE amount of consideration to the Calgary offer, he even admitted it publicly. Obviously that means that he felt that there was an opportunity to win here judging by your comment.

The only perosn who knows what he was feeling or why he didn't sign in Calgary is Richards. You don't know if he felt Calgary was an opportunity to win. How do you know it was even close? He could have been being nice. By that same logic, the Oilers were close to signing Jagr because he knows the Oilers want to win.

NHL Average Age Numbers 2011-12

-Flames are 23rd in the league at 28.3 years. LA checks in at 5 with 26.6. Now look at the teams grouped around Calgary. DET, PIT, WSH, FLO, VAN, PHX, ANA, NJ and TB. That is not bad company. Now look at the teams grouped around LA: COL, EDM, TOR, NSH, NYR, BUF, CAR, WPG, MIN, CBJ. There are some good teams in both categories. So why is it a disadvantage to be older? You even said that's how Calgary always beats Edmonton, because Calgary's veterans know how to win. And while there are good teams at both ends of the age spectrum, there's a higher concentration of contenders at the top of it and not the bottom.

Yeah, the older teams should be contenders. Is Calgary a contender? If a team is one of the oldest in the league and they are struggling to make the playoffs it doesn't show promise for their future.

-Columbus wasn't trying to save money this year. Atlanta wasn't exactly saving that much when the Big 5 was still there. Edmonton may be spending money on scouting, but when you're topping out all the time on the draft podium it doesn't necessarily matter how much money you put into scouting. A la Pittsburgh with Crosby, Malkin, Staal. And just because you spend more on scouting doesn't mean you'll end up with the late round steals. Again, Pittsburgh's shoestring budget nabbed them Letang in the third, Goligoski in the mid rounds. Buffalo pulled out some great draft classes despite only having video scouting for so long, Ennis, Adam, and Myers were pulled out of the 2008 draft alone with that method.

The Oilers have one thing going for them where the others failed and that is a loyal fan base. I commend you for that, at the very least I can respect a guy who lives and dies by his team and I'd rather have a hardcore Oilers fan than a boathopper. But you have to wonder how long that can last, should it get to that 5,6,7 year point. It's not like neither the Flames or the Oilers have gone down this path before, those 1990s to early 2000s years were real lean on both sides. TBH I don't know whether you can remember those days since you call everyone an oldtimer which leads me to assuming you're quite young, but Flames attendance slumped to 13000 in those days, Oilers not much better. If nothing else, Darryl Sutter ignited a fanbase and if it weren't for him, who knows whether the Flames would still be in Calgary or not.

I'm in my 20's and I've been closely following the Oilers since 1997. I started the old timer stuff after FF52, DD and CW started the young crap. Honestly, I think Katz almost fluked out when he decided to rebuild. Edmonton's economy is great, the Canadian dollar is high and the NHL as a whole is gaining popularity. He also timed it well with the rebuilding of an arena. Not sure how long the dollar will stay this high but if the Oilers keep progressing they should be a decent team before something causes a downturn in the economy.

Do you think you can stand watching hope for 7 years? Cause that is what we went through with Iginla for so long. There were false starts, like Valeri Bure, like Marc Savard but somehow they never panned out to completion. And those guys had some real good seasons at some point for the Flames.

It's not like Oiler fans are just in wait mode. We are watching our young stars improve before our eyes. Even though the standings might not explain it, the Oilers are a much better team this year compared to last year. I expect the Oilers to at least be challenging for the playoffs next season with the hope of getting in.

[Crzydrvr]

Flames fans got to watch Iginla pot 52 goals....funny, because after a hot start (like this year's Oilers) they once again sank to the depths of the NHL. We had a star in the making and we were watching that progress, but after watching "progress" for another 5 years after his original breakout you're going to get impatient and bored.

And 20s is still young....depending on where you are on that bar you're older than me.

[DirtyDeeds]

haha, I was just continuing the spirit of the conversation.

_{I actually like dirtydeeds, he says what`s on his mind, whether I agree or not.}

Np Crude. Lets be honest cause people just wanna know. Is that Rum or Whiskey in the squirt bottle thingy of yours?

[Flame111]

That's hilarious, you made the post, you put the three dots to imply the list goes on.

Fact is, you don't want to acknowledge that you have no case.

Last year both teams missed the playoffs, we were last, Flames marginally better.

Year before that both teams missed the playoffs we were last, Flames were marginally better.

Year before that we missed the playoffs by 6 points, you guys got torched in the first round, Flames marginally better.

Year before that we finished 9th, you got into the playoffs and lost in the first round.Flames marginally better.

We went to the final in '06, we did better.

You went to the final in'04 you did better.

You want to ignore everything before that because for the prior 3 decades (aside from, really 2 years,) it was all Oilers.

So how can you imply you are historically better, when you haven't been, and during the last 5 years when you have been better, you still haven't been very good either? You haven't won a playoff round. You have nothing positive to celebrate as a franchise, you only have our recent woes to revel in.

So if I understand you, you are saying the Flames are better than the Oilers, right.

And I am not better than calling other people names after a bad loss, it is an emotional moment.

In all seriousness though, picking a player out of the top 5 is not that hard. The list is there for everyone to look up on the rankings. The tough picks are all the lower ones. I'll give the Oilers Ebs but at the moment I don't see any other late round gold. The Flames have Sven who is looking good so far, remains to be seen if he can transition.

The whole point here is that Connor is so over the top on the Oilers rebuild and so far ahead of himself that he constantly makes these statements that are very, very premature. Really DL44's post sums it up, I say the same things all the time on the Oiler board although not as clearly.

Can the Oiler's rebuild work, sure it can but that remains to be seen. Lot of prudent management has to occur and next year will tell the tale.

Tambs has a lot of work to do. Three lottery picks in a row, two of which are #1's overall is not enough. History shows so many examples of failed rebuilds. In fact as the Capitals appear to be falling, for who knows why, they may end up being another example of of a failed rebuild.

The FLAMES have won MORE playoff rounds in the last 12 years than the Capitals.

That includes a good chunk of the 7 year dark age when the Flames couldn't even make the playoffs and the last few years missing it. This is the team of Ovie, Backstrom, Green and Semin. A team that appeared to do everything right in rebuilding, today they sit outside of the playoffs. Rebuilds are risky, Connor seems to ignore it and also extend out his wait time which is dangerous.

In all honesty this is the last season for the Oilers to be in the basement bottom ten in the NHL. If they are not at least up to the bubble teams of 15-20th overall, some concern should start to be raised. If Tambs stalls things out he can lose the confidence of the young stars in wanting to resign and stay.

That is the Oiler nightmare situation. To get 7 years out of RNH, Hall, Ebs and watch them walk away as UFA?

Connors cocky prediction that the Oilers will win the Cup by 2020 is really naive. It is loaded with massive assumptions. The Canucks for all their careful work can not even win the Cup despite being the run-away favorites last year.

[ConnorFutureGM]

I've said several times that I expect the Oilers to be challenging for the playoffs next season.

Predictions are meant to be leaps. If I made a prediction Vancouver is going to make the playoffs isn't much of a prediction.

[DL44]

I've said several times that I expect the Oilers to be challenging for the playoffs next season.

Predictions are meant to be leaps. If I made a prediction Vancouver is going to make the playoffs isn't much of a prediction.

That's true. And it's definitely a leap.

I personally don't have the expectation that Tambellini will be able to sufficiently supplement the roster enough to make that extraordinary of a jump of 14th to top 8.

Whatever pickups they have thru the draft this yr will not help them next yr... so that leaves a lot on the shoulders of trades and free agency.

The weakness with the Oilers... the backend:

The D signed for next year - Whitney, Gilbert, Smid, Sutton, Potter.

RFAs - Peckham, Petry, Barker.

Khabibulin is signed next yr.

How management fixes that will determine their fate next season.

Status quo = another 'rebuilding yr'.

How do you see it go down Connor. What do you think management will do?

OR.. is your leap of faith that 'Status quo on the backend = playoffs next yr'.. because that would definitely be a massive leap right there.

[Flame111]

I've said several times that I expect the Oilers to be challenging for the playoffs next season.

Predictions are meant to be leaps. If I made a prediction Vancouver is going to make the playoffs isn't much of a prediction.

And if they are not, do you recant all your comments on the Flames having no future, the Oilers winning the Cup by 2020 and all of the other strong positions you have taken over the last couple years.

[ConnorFutureGM]

That's true. And it's definitely a leap.

I personally don't have the expectation that Tambellini will be able to sufficiently supplement the roster enough to make that extraordinary of a jump of 14th to top 8.

Whatever pickups they have thru the draft this yr will not help them next yr... so that leaves a lot on the shoulders of trades and free agency.

The weakness with the Oilers... the backend:

The D signed for next year - Whitney, Gilbert, Smid, Sutton, Potter.

RFAs - Peckham, Petry, Barker.

Khabibulin is signed next yr.

How management fixes that will determine their fate next season.

Status quo = another 'rebuilding yr'.

How do you see it go down Connor. What do you think management will do?

OR.. is your leap of faith that 'Status quo on the backend = playoffs next yr'.. because that would definitely be a massive leap right there.

I don't understand your view of ineptitude on Oilers management. They haven't done a move that was detrimental to the rebuild since the rebuild started in the 2009-10 season.

The Oilers top 4 now: Whitney, Gilbert, Smid, Petry

You probably don't watch a lot of Oilers hockey but Petry is having a huge season. He has moved into the top 4 and is looking to have potential of being a top pairing defenceman.

Smid is having a great year leading the Oilers in blocked shots and hits.

Gilbert is having a bounce back year.

Whitney has become better after having a really bad start to the season because of his foot surgery.

Sutton and Potter should be 7th defencemen and Peckham and Barker don't even look like NHL defencemen this year.

I still expect management to do something to bolster the defence this off season.

"I find your lack of faith is disturbing"

Lets say the Oilers go status quo, you think there will no improvment from within? The Oilers best players are their youngest players and they will get better and better each year in the NHL.

And if they are not, do you recant all your comments on the Flames having no future, the Oilers winning the Cup by 2020 and all of the other strong positions you have taken over the last couple years.

If the Oilers are in the same position next year that they are in this year then I expect changes in management and coaching.

The Oilers would still have a very promsing group of players. The Flames, not so much.

[DL44]

Lets say the Oilers go status quo, you think there will no improvment from within? The Oilers best players are their youngest players and they will get better and better each year in the NHL.

They have players that will definitely be upswinging in their development... no question.

But if the D stays status quo... i just don't see how the next developmental step of Peckham(24), Petry(24) and Smid(26) will flip their 25th ranked D up to sufficent levels.

The rest of the signed D is pretty much at what-you-see-is-what-you-get based on their ages... And what-you-see this yr and what-you-are-getting from those guys is far from the playoff-tier level of play required to truly compete.

Again.. it all gets down to who the Edm brass is able to add this off-season... But i definitely disagee with your take that development from within will be enough to bounce from 14th to top 8..

Historically i don't think you could pull a single comparable that pulled such a turnaround without significant turnover and significant additions to their rosters...

It's dream at this point.

[ConnorFutureGM]

They have players that will definitely be upswinging in their development... no question.

But if the D stays status quo... i just don't see how the next developmental step of Peckham(24), Petry(24) and Smid(26) will flip their 25th ranked D up to sufficent levels.

The rest of the signed D is pretty much at what-you-see-is-what-you-get based on their ages... And what-you-see this yr and what-you-are-getting from those guys is far from the playoff-tier level of play required to truly compete.

Again.. it all gets down to who the Edm brass is able to add this off-season... But i definitely disagee with your take that development from within will be enough to bounce from 14th to top 8..

Historically i don't think you could pull a single comparable that pulled such a turnaround without significant turnover and significant additions to their rosters...

It's dream at this point.

I'm saying if they go status quo there could be improvment. I didn't say enough improvment to get into 8th.

I disagree with you thinking it comes down to what additions to the roster there will be in the off season. If there are additions, it will likely players to supplement the young core, not to lead the young core.

[Flyerfan52]

I've said several times that I expect the Oilers to be challenging for the playoffs next season.

I'm saying if they go status quo there could be improvment. I didn't say enough improvment to get into 8th.

I disagree with you thinking it comes down to what additions to the roster there will be in the off season. If there are additions, it will likely players to supplement the young core, not to lead the young core.

OK.

[Zirakzigil]

Oilers need a goalie, top pairing defenseman and a top 4 defenseman. If they get that then they can talk about playoffs. If they dont then its just a pipe dream.

[DL44]

I'm saying if they go status quo there could be improvment. I didn't say enough improvment to get into 8th.

I disagree with you thinking it comes down to what additions to the roster there will be in the off season. If there are additions, it will likely players to supplement the young core, not to lead the young core.

And that's what i've saying... to supplement... i never said lead.

But did you notice how you contradicted yourself in your post there?

First paragragh - "..status quo there could be improvment. I didn't say enough improvment to get into 8th."

Second paragragh - "I disagree with you thinking it comes down to what additions to the roster"

If you're relying on development from within and remain status quo, you agree that it wouldn't be enough to make the playoffs... So therefore, logically that means it comes down to who management brings in to supplement the roster and the youngens...

But then you say you don't think it will come down to the additions to the roster..???

I think you've confused yourself pretty good here Connor talking in circles.

[UnrefinedCrude]

So if I understand you, you are saying the Flames are better than the Oilers, right.

For the last 5 years, yeah. Only a fool would suggest otherwise. Iginla and Kipper alone ensure the Flames won't sink to last place.

Flame111, it will be over the next year or two that we can start assessing the Oilers draft picks. So far only the early picks that Stu (A Calgary native iirc,) has made have entered the league. they are as expected pretty darn good, maybe even surprisingly good, given our almost complete lack of a veteran support system. It will be over the next two seasons that the later picks will start working into the line up on more than just an odd game here or there basis.

Given the performance of our farm team over the last two years, especially considering how many times we have called up their scoring leaders, there is reason to be optimistic. But again it's all puppy dogs and rainbows until you see what they do at the pro level.

this is where the bulk of our prospects on the blue line lie. I think there are a couple who may become top pairing guys down the line, but most are 2nd and 3rd pairing potential. We need to acquire at least one top pairing guy (I think a top pairing and a 2nd pairing,) to take the next step.

We also need to address goaltending in the short term. Khabbi is long in the tooth, and at this point is only sporadically great. The absolute longest he will bean Oiler will be next season when his contract expires, I think he's as likely to be gone before that time. Dubnyk shows signs of being at least capable, but with the current state of our D it is hard to assess. I think he is destined to be a back up. In our system we have a few potential goalies. Tyler Bunz, who I don't have to describe to anyone who follows Jr hockey especially in Alberta, and also Olivier Roy. Roy is a bit more of a question mark than Bunz, but his one down year in Jr. as well as his shaky WJHC appearance are something I chalk up to the one year he spent under a different goalie coach in Acadie-Bathurst.

He changed his style, and I think it was a mistake (He was playing too deep in the net, and his positioning and rebound control suffered, his rebound control was what really hurt him in the WJHC. Since playing with our ECHL affiliate and a return to his former playing style his numbers have been nothing less than stellar. There are also a number of other high end goaltenders in development. We will start seeing who blossoms in a season or two, but we need a short term solution for at least next season and probably the season after that.

I think there is a plan in place to address these issues, this off season will reveal if there is more to the plan than acquiring high picks. We need to have our developing players show promise. Playing with Hall, Eberle, RNH,and Gags has to be enticing to players around the league, but we still need to shore up the back end to attract the truly high end D-Man or two that we need. We need to get to the point where a top flight guy will think he can be the difference maker to take us to the next level, but not that he will be hung out to dry or thrown to the wolves. We're not quite good enough or reliable enough back there to attract that final piece.

Personally I think Tambellini is only employed to (thinly,) mask that Lowe has been given opportunity to fix his mess. I think due to the fact that Lowe actually put together a Cup contender, and the rather unique circumstances of it's downfall, he Katz is allowing him to move in a new direction. Things blew up on Lowe in a very unforseen way, and he made some grave mistakes. This was when Katz declared a total rebuild, I think Lowe authored the plan, but they hired Tambi as a meat shield for him. I think if Lowe learned from his reaction decisions when the wheels fell off, he actually can turn it around, with someone like Katz who knows how to succeed .

I think Renney was hired due to his success at the junior level, and that he would be patient with so many young players in prominent roles, that he would allow them to make mistakes, that he would use the press box as a teaching tool, not as punishment. I think the cycle he was hired for is ending. He won't be behind the bench for more than one more year (maybe not that,) I think he will be promoted or moved to another position with the organization. I think Todd Nelson our AHL coach is being groomed to replace him. Possibly as an assistant next season.

There is still plenty of work left for the organization. Plenty of things that could and will go wrong, but I actually think they are finally pointing in the right direction. (having Iggy and Kipper means the Flames have a real shot at turning things around without leveling the house, but they need to think a little more long term than they have seemed to thus far,IMO. But things are not dire,yet.)

Oh and Deeds,it's just Oil, you need a much bigger container for the mental lubricants needed to ease the suffering of three straight lottery finishes.

[ConnorFutureGM]

And that's what i've saying... to supplement... i never said lead.

But did you notice how you contradicted yourself in your post there?

First paragragh - "..status quo there could be improvment. I didn't say enough improvment to get into 8th."

Second paragragh - "I disagree with you thinking it comes down to what additions to the roster"

If you're relying on development from within and remain status quo, you agree that it wouldn't be enough to make the playoffs... So therefore, logically that means it comes down to who management brings in to supplement the roster and the youngens...

But then you say you don't think it will come down to the additions to the roster..???

I think you've confused yourself pretty good here Connor talking in circles.

Barring the Oilers getting a #1 defenceman, the fate of the Oilers is up to the young stars. That is who they are relying on to lead the team. They are the players that determine this teams' fate.

There hasn't been much pressure for the kids to produce. Next year they are in their contract years. The Oilers will also have Smid and Whitney in contract years.

Lets say the Oilers keep relatively the same roster; here is what I think they will have to do to make the playoffs.

1. Two legitimate scoring lines. One can have Hall-Gagner-Hemsky, the other can have Smyth-RNH-Eberle

- Hall 30+ goals

- Gagner 50+ points

- Hemsky plays 70+ games

- RNH gets 60+ points

- Eberle stays around ppg

- Smyth just needs 20+ goals

2. The bottom 2 lines have to be more consistent with a physical presence

3. Whitney has to play 70+ games

4. Smid or Gilbert has to be at least as good next season as they were this season

5. Petry has to stay at least at the same level as he is now

- Numbers 3, 4, and 5 gives the Oilers 3 top 4 defencemen

6. The team needs a combined save % of .915

7. Special teams stay at least at their current level

The Oilers had a very bad streak when they had a bunch of AHL defencemen playing for the team in December and January. If the Oilers can stay healthy, the team takes it's improvments it had this year, becomes more consistent and continues to grow, the Oilers should be ok. That being said, I want the Oilers to make moves in the off season the incease their chance of the post season next year. I expect the Oilers to at least be challenging for the playoffs. If they are not challenging for the playoffs ie sellers at the deadline, then the season would be a disappointment.

[DL44]

That being said, I want the Oilers to make moves in the off season the incease their chance of the post season next year. I expect the Oilers to at least be challenging for the playoffs. If they are not challenging for the playoffs ie sellers at the deadline, then the season would be a disappointment.

You have expectations that the Oilers make the supporting moves necessary to upgrade the lineup along side the developing youngsters.. and therefore you have expectations that they'll at least be challenging for the playoffs.

That's definitely fair.

It gets back to one of my original points, however.

I think the Oilers management will be hard pressed this yr to attract the quality supporting talent needed...

a - because i doubt the oilers' state as a 'rebuilding' team is a selling point

b - faith in the management

* It is an absolute MUST they have a better July 1st 2012, than their July 1st, 2011.

For reference purposes -

Edm signings July 1st, 2011 : Eager, Hordichuk, Barker, Belanger, Potter, Green.

If they go with (or get stuck with, or are forced to settle for) more reclamation projects and rejects again this season as their depth... maaan...

Can't wait to find out how they score.

[ConnorFutureGM]

You have expectations that the Oilers make the supporting moves necessary to upgrade the lineup along side the developing youngsters.. and therefore you have expectations that they'll at least be challenging for the playoffs.

That's definitely fair.

It gets back to one of my original points, however.

I think the Oilers management will be hard pressed this yr to attract the quality supporting talent needed...

a - because i doubt the oilers' state as a 'rebuilding' team is a selling point

b - faith in the management

* It is an absolute MUST they have a better July 1st 2012, than their July 1st, 2011.

For reference purposes -

Edm signings July 1st, 2011 : Eager, Hordichuk, Barker, Belanger, Potter, Green.

If they go with (or get stuck with, or are forced to settle for) more reclamation projects and rejects again this season as their depth... maaan...

Can't wait to find out how they score.

The free agent market is getting thinner by the day.

Me thinks it will be more through trades that the Oilers' roster will be altered.