travel_dude
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Everything posted by travel_dude
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Elliott said that he met with the team and talked about moving on. They both felt it was the best. Don't know exactly when that happened, but it was fortunate for us.
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Burke said they are comfortable with him as the backup right now. He said they were ready to move on, but he pulled himself together. He went on to say that he would have to compete at camp like every other player. That sort of implies he will get a QO. Burke isn't the GM, so anything could happen. It just seems like they both like the goalie.
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What do you think the Flames should do regarding a backup for this season? I know you have brought up a lot of goalie ideas, but wondered if you still think Ortio is the best plan for a backup? Do you think he needs a bigger workload to be successful or are you ok with him starting less than 30 games? Or do you think there is a viable 30 game guy out there we should be targeting? BTW, I am thankful we didn't get MAF. He would have been more expensive than Elliott. The Pengie bloggers are feeling they made a huge mistake and will pay for it. Dallas seems to be out now as an option.
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I think you have to look at the available market this summer and see what there is. I think you qualify him just to retain his rights, but I would hold off signing until you do the due diligence of exploring options. Burke said that he has earned a look in camp, so they may not go beyond that until then. Maybe bring a guy in on a PTO? As it stands, we have Elliott, Ortio, Gillies, Rittich, and MacDonald. If a really good backup is available for next to nothing, then you walk away from Ortio; he will not be fighting Elliott for the starter job. Really my only issues about Ortio are his slow start and seeming to need to play games in bunches. If he is the backup out of camp, then you give him 2 out if 6 games. Keep him relatively fresh. As Phoenix says, maybe you just go into the season with him as the backup and see if he can win more than 50% of his starts. If so, keep him. If not, look at the myriad of other options. I would like to see the two new Heat goalies (Mac and Rittich) alternate between the ECHL and AHL to get more reps in. I don't want them to go to Gillies for an NHL injury replacement.
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The pre-draft comments are just that. He didn't know he was getting Elliott. With Bishop, you can roll with Ortio as the backup, but with Elliott, you need someone that may need a bigger workload. Forget about the cap space created; it was a fluke. Any vet brought in will have to be on a reasonable contract, not a big overpay at FA.
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I tend to think that Ortio is not good unless he gets a bunch of starts together. I'm not sure that the Flames can wait for him to be consistent. He's typically (some might disagree) shown to be a slow starter in the fall, be it AHL or NHL. I think that there is an interest in someone else out there. Might be the wrong time to get one, though. I am at least very happy with the Elliott trade. JR can suck on it. He had his chance to eliminate some cap, lose a dressing room distraction, and now may lose Murray for nothing in the upcoming expansion. With Bishop, I think that the re-signing number scared CGY off. They were in-like-Flynn and had a viable deal with the Bolts when they talked to Bishop. After that, the talks dried up in a big hurry. Worse case scenario for the Flames is that Elliott has a less than stellar season, they make a trade for Vasilevskiy for less than par value. They protect Vasilevskiy and sign Elliott is he goes unclaimed, assuming that is something they even want to do. There will be 29 other goalies available.
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I think there is a bit of a misconception about Elliott. He has always been the 1a/1b goalie on the Blues. This year Allen was the 1a. Last year he was the 1a, but they gave the playoffs to Allen. The year before he was 1b behind Halak, then they brought in Miller. Before that he was 1b. That's not to say he can handle 60 games, but I think he will gets starts more frequently here. Not to snib Ortio, but we need at least a good backup that can play cold and win. The backup isn't going to get a bunch of games in a row to stay consistent. That is the reason why I wonder if we still need to look.
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Hard to convince a cup winner to part with their #1 guy, even if he sat out the playoffs. They talk tough, but have very little latitude that gives them a decent return. Niemi/Lettin-it-in is the worst choice.
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Between Elliott, MAF and Bishop, I would rate the best fit as Elliott and Bishop. I started to think about a pending reduction of goalie equipment and think that MAF would look like a squirt in smaller pads and gear. Both Elliott and Bishop cover the net pretty well as it is. I think there is a deal there, for either Elliott or Bishop. We should get a freebie for the JBow trade, or at least considerations.
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Bishop is a realistic target, but a hard sell. He's a legit top 5 goalie in the league right now. If Tampa wasn't in such a bad state with the cap, they would keep him over Vasilevskiy, if the choice had to be made. But they have to make hard choices. RFA's like Killorn and the bunch. Trying to keep your franchise player before he goes UFA. Trying to keep your #1 goalie when he is a year away from a big raise. Trying to retain a possible long term replacement for your #1. If you are closing on a deal for Bishop, there has to be the discussion about the re-signing with the player. If you are going for Elliott, you have less of an issue, but need to keep the cost reasonable. Reimer is a fall back plan only. Any others have to be short term deals so you aren't stuck with a goalie that can't handle the starts.
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I was alluding to that previously. He's not going to get a raise unless Allen somehow craps the bed. Even then, I think they believe that they can ice a playoff team without him.
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We spent $8m+ on crap goaltending last year, and $7m the year before for average. Are ya really concerned about spending $5.9m? Money is not the issue here. Return is. Quality is. The GM's are all playing a game of chicken. BT is making it known he is interested in Reimer. Let's see how long GM of the year and Stevie Y go before they back down a bit.
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The 6th is out for sure. The 2nd rounders and 3rds are more likely in play (not all of them). I would think that some kind of conditional pick would be in the deal based on him re-signing. WOuld have to be in 2017, as it would be too late for a 2016 one.
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I think what I was getting at was trading assets for a goalie that may not even be close to NHL ready seems risky, if you have to wait till camp to find out. If you wait till the start of the season, then you have no draft currency from this year to use. You have to trade prospects (good ones) and decent players. Not knowing if these goalies are even available, I wouldn't say that this is a viable option. I'm not saying I want to give up a 6th overall for a very good goalie, but if it comes down to a couple of 2nds or 2nd and 3rd for that goalie, or 3rd round picks for a chance of a good goalie, I'm not sure the latter is worth it. Kudos for the suggestions. I think the draft pick currency evaporates by Friday/Saturday.
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Are those prospects you want or candidate for starting goalies/backups? What do you trade for either of those guys? Any concern with Martin spending most of the time in the ECHL?
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If we are looking at a bigger deal, I would be looking for Killorn.
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No idea what you are asking. The expansion draft is next June. The expansion draft happens, then the entry draft. Vegas gets the 3rd position, pending the lotto results (they get the same chances more or less that Vancouver did this year). The 2nd round on, they pick 3rd. FA happens after that. 2017/18 is the first season of the Vegas team.
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The difference between Tampa and Chicago is the young core they have, mostly on ELC's and cheap contracts. Vasilevskiy is affordable now and into the future, but will likely be the one that they protect. If they can afford both this season, they will keep both and try to trade Bishop or just let him be selected/walk. If Vasilevskiy was available, it would cost similar to what Murray would (a 1st plus other pieces). I don't know that for a fact, but suspect it to be the case. And to make that clear, Murray is not going anywhere.
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True. The idea term for Bishop would be 3 years. Gives us the chance to get Gillies (or MacDonald or whoever) up to speed, ready to be the #1. Elliott, in my mind, is the better choice of the two. He will get paid, but not as much. I actually think Elliott will be available. He is not their goalie of the future. If they protect a goalie next year, it will be Allen.
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Like I said, protection of Bishop is not the issue. Vegas can select him and then sign him to a monster deal. Or he goes UFA, which Tampa loses him to anyway. Lose-lose situation. If Bishop wanted $7m over 5 years, we could do that. We were over $8m this past season. Sure, we didn't have Monay, Johnny and Bennett making big bucks. It just means that we don't have any overpriced scrubs on the roster. A 3rd line center can't be earning $3.5m. A 4th line player can't be earning over $2m. A 3rd pairing defenseman can't be earning over $1.5m.
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As a long-term plan, they either have to commit to their young players (Vasilevskiy, Killorn, Miller, Namestnikov, Kucherov, Paquette, and Nesterov) or to an aging, though elite, goalie. His next deal will be as bad or worse. Without Stamkos they could afford Bishop this year, possibly. But after this year? Tampa has big problems. This year and next year.
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Sure, they can leave him unprotected. What does that do for them? Vegas would snap up that quality a goalie in a heartbeat. Tampa's cap issues run deeper than just Stamkos. They have the following RFA that need deals; Killorn, Miller, Namestnikov, Kucherov, Paquette, and Nesterov. Some of those are gonna cost. Clearing Bishop's salary helps cover the overage for Stamkos, but that's all it does. They still have challenges this year and next year even moreso. They can't afford Bishop today, let alone earning a raise next year.
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He hasn't played a "professional season" yet; 10 games in the AHL for someone 20 or older. He played 7. By the end of this year, he will have played 1 pro season. Since you have no desire to talk about your preferences, other than vague references, I will let you be. Criticize everyone else's preferences or predictions.
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Nicely put. We have the Murray part of the equation. Just need the other, equally essential part. Unfortunately, all you are doing is creating a debate about what you say you said. You don't want to discuss them, that's fine. If you don't want to take the time to go through 300 pages of posts to prove you are right, I get that. Maybe there in another thread. All I am am saying is that I can't find any of these mystery people you refer to. I gave you a list of who you have named. All except Ortio, who I think is too obvious to mention. It's a Goaltending thread. People bring up goalies and others debate them. What else is there to talk about in this thread when we don't have any signed to the NHL?
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Again, I wasn't implying we could get Murray for a 6th++. I was saying that would be the cost. I only saw two other suggestions from you; Saros (Nashville) and the guy that NYI drafted. Since you devote enough time to say that you provided names, why not just provide the names? You keep saying that you have given them, but I just don't see it. Are you talking about the joke names like Steven Harper or Hextall's son (said in jest)? Other than that, do you agree with the rest of my post about Pitts having MAF as their #1 guy while Murray was still developing? Sounds like a good strategy to me. We are missing the MAF or Bishop or Elliott piece of that puzzle right now.
