Wreckening
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Posts posted by Wreckening
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Less than stellar performance by Ramo tonight. No way this game should have been that close. I like the idea of hiring Burke as the new goalie coach. Treliving would be very familiar with his work.
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Agree. Gillies will run with the ball for a while I suspect.
Going to be interesting to see how Ramo reacts to this. Will he be professional and take his lumps or will we see the uglier side as these things tend to go?
Or.....
Will someone take a flier on him and he stays in the NHL?
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Ramo may be interested in getting back in there but repeating the same action over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. Time to shake things up. You don't think Ortio is chomping at the bit to get in there and turn things around for this team?
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WE WANT ORTIO!!! WE WANT ORTIO!!!
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If Hartley won't go to Ortio now then it's pretty clear to me he just has no confidence in him and if that's the case Treliving then has to do something because this has gone in long enough. The flames can't keep having a dead roster spot right now especially with the way they are playing. If Hartley has no confidence then waive Orito because why should they care if they lose him when the coach will never play him anyway.
Either way this has to get dealt with. The flames really should be using that roster spot to rotate and sit players that need to be sat but instead they have a 3rd goalie burning up the spot. It's just gone on too long.
+1
Couldn't agree more. Just doesn't make sense that they would keep this festering for so long.
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It's a frustrating situation to watch, I can just imagine how it is on all 3 goalies. That's a lot of pressure to put on them when they're trying to win you hockey games and getting you off to a good start to the season. I don't like and haven't liked the idea of carrying 3 goalies. I'm even less enamored with it today. It's a distraction this team doesn't need.
As of right now I'm giving the organization a C- on this decision to keep all 3. I understand why it is, I just feel like something needs to be done sooner than later.
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As the coach has a say in the matter of goal tending Ortio is 3rd on the charts. Hiller plays a more stable game than Ramo, Ramo has more experience than Ortio. Is Ortio our future starter, I don't think so, I believe our future starter just had a shutout in Stockton. Ortio will never be a starting goalie for this team, backup at best. We shall see where Gillies stits after a few more AHL starts, the picture may get really clear
I don't think the Flames can wait that long to be honest tmac. Yes, you're right when it comes to experience but I don't think you can let that interfere with Ortio's development. The only way to get experience is to actually play in games. It's clear that the Flames can't carry 3 tenders for the entire season so something has to give.
Ortio may not be our future starter but we cannot say that for sure until we see what we have in him. Personally, and I said this before, Ortio should have at least got the first 5 starts so that the Flames could evaluate him. We know what we have in Hiller and Ramo. The problem lies in what we do when it comes to assignments. Sending any of the three to Stockton takes time away from Gillies and that's not conducive to developing goalies.
The solution is to find a trading partner for either Ramo or Hiller. Personally I think it should be Ramo who gets traded the more I think about it. The Flames may have to take their lumps in a trade but I think you have to settle the goaltending situation sooner rather than later.
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Then there's always this.....Who would you rather have mentoring Ortio?
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Jon Gillies pitches a shutout in his professional debut - the @AHLHeat drubbed Rockford 7-0 tonight.
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Have to agree. Hiller looks to be more in control in the crease whereas Ramo has happy feet.
I am a little surprised Ortio hasn't got a start yet.
They've only played 2 games.
I knew that Ramo and Hiller would start the season off against the Canucks. Ortio will get his shot against St. Louis I believe, unless Hartley sticks by his you win you play rule.
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Lots of buzz on the interwebs about how a trade between Buffalo and Calgary is a match made in heaven. People are screaming to get this done and I'm one of them. Having 3 goalies is a distraction this club does not need right now. I've mostly been on board with trading Hiller personally but I'm starting to see the merits of Ramo being the odd man out as well. Ramo probably fetches you more in the way of picks and/or prospects and he has the friendlier cap hit. I'd be ok with packaging Raymond as well. Of course you'd probably have to eat some of his salary.
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2nd, 3rd, and a top prospect? I'll take that for Raymond + G
Let's get on the horn to Tim Murray and git 'er done!
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Sure, but what does BUF have that we'd want in return? Looking at their roster, there hardly seems like anything that stands out as an upgrade or decent replacement.
I'd love to package Raymond and a goalie to BUF, but there's nothing in BUF I want to see here.
Draft Pick!!!!!
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This seems to be where the Flames brass seems to be out of touch. It's as though they don't trust the goaltending. A decision needs to be made sooner rather than later. If it were me I would have let Ortio run with the ball for the first 5 games and see what he has to offer. If he struggles than it's easy, you waive him. If he plays well, then there's the decision on who goes. Either Hiller or Ramo. As the old saying goes, modified to say on here, Crap or get off the pot!
Like I said, I'm not willing to place the blame on Ramo for last night's game. The whole team stunk up the joint. I think Ramo played well enough to have given the Flames a chance in this game but for lack of effort on the rest of the team they just seemed to call it in.
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Even with the 5-1 loss I think Ramo had a helluva game. He had maybe 1 bad goal, that being the first goal, but it was a bullet by Hansen. The other goals were all on poor defensive breakdowns. I remember Kipper having a few of these nights.
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Holding Ortio for 2-3 weeks from exposing him to waivers could also be letting teams go and address their concerns first and then trying to hide them. Anyone claimed on waivers has to stay on the roster for 30 days so in 2 weeks from now, assuming no major injuries or dissapointments occur, may be possible to sneak Ortio becuase I think any teams with immediate needs are likely to address them between now and then.
Still a very high risk to take. Desperate teams do desperate things at times. I would rather expose Hiller or Ramo to waivers and bury their salary in the A rather than lose Ortio. I think of the three he has the most upside. Do I think he's our future? Not really sure. He needs to play more to establish himself and show he's ready. This is why I think we have the three of them on the roster. The Flames will want to give him his time to show what he can do. I believe he gets the start at home in the third game. He will be the back up for the second game behind Hiller.
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Which is stupid because it means BT basically paid Ramo $3.8-mil to buy someone else's 3rd round pick eventually.
Huh? How do you figure that?
Simple fact is BT didn't know what kind of situation he had in the crease coming into this season. Was Ortio going to come in and have another lack-luster camp like he did last year? And if he did, where would that of left the Flames if they didn't sign Ramo? Scrambling for another goalie that they would have had to pay a premium price on either through FA or trade. I don't like the 3.8-mil contract Ramo has but it is insurance and its only for 1 year.
The only reason, in my opinion, that one of Ramo or Hiller haven't been moved yet is because teams are sitting on their netminding to start the year. I think after the first month goes by and teams see what they have the market for goalies will heat up a little. I'm encouraged by the way all 3 of our goalies have played thus far in the preseason. They are only building their stock.
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Maybe the Flames just keep 3 goalies then...
Can't see it really. Something has to give. There's no real benefit to carrying three goalies. It means someone sits for extended times should one goalie start on a run.
Something will get done before the end of camp. Either a trade or demotion.
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Ortio made a strong case for himself. It's good to see him having a good camp as opposed to last year.
Tonight Hiller gets the reigns for the entire game. It will be interesting to see how he does. If he too has a strong game it will make things very interesting in the crease. We have quite the conundrum facing this coaching staff. How long do you carry three goalies if all have good camps? I don't know if they will carry all 3 into the start of the season. This is when you want to set the tempo for the season and rotating 3 goalies really disrupts that.
After last night's performance Ortio has changed my mind on waiving him. He's starting the "golden hour" in which goalies come into their own. If he continues to shine I really can't see how you demote him, especially with the Always Earned, Never Given mantra. I'm also starting to question of who I would like to see being traded should Ortio make the team. On one hand I haven't been real impressed with Hiller dating back to last season. Sure he had a good run midway through the season but then really started to fade down the stretch. I had to ask myself is a goalie like Hiller going to net you the best gains in a trade? (Sorry for the pun). I then shifted my attention to Ramo. Like Hiller he had good runs but also had stinker nights between the pipes as well. The difference being Ramo came on at the end of the season, much like he did the season prior. He would definitely bring you a better return than Hiller in regards to a trade but you would be sacrificing the better goalie in my opinion.
So here's the 64 thousand dollar question. Who do you trade? The choice, my friends, is not so simple or clear cut. At the end of the day management has to make a tough decision.
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I think he clears. I also think he will be waived by the Flames barring a trade. As Peeps said, I think 99% of the teams are committed to their netminders and really would be taking a flier on Ortio.
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According to Vickers, Gillies is under concussion protocol.
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Pat Steinberg retweeted
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Aaron Vickers @AAVickers 5h5 hours ago#Flames G Jon Gillies under concussion protocol following hit sustained against Dinos on Wednesday.
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Man that sucks. Hopefully it's not real serious. Kind of makes you want to rethink these kinds of games. Is it necessary to subject your young stars to meaningless games where they have the opportunity to get hurt.
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In my opinion I think this is a make or break year for Ortio. Not so much as in they will cut him loose but more along the lines of if he has another weak camp like he did last year I see BT having no issue in waiving him. I can't see any team wanting an unproven goaltender who has weak camps. This leaves us with our tandem from last year and if management has lost faith in Hiller then I think we see movement on a trade to maybe go out and get that starter we need.
If Ortio has a good camp though and shows he is NHL ready then I think management has some big questions to answer. You won't want to waive a young NHL ready tender so either Ramo or Hiller gets traded or demoted. I think, personally, that they should in this case trade Hiller. Get some value rather than lose him on the waiver wire. Any picks for him would be a plus as we would be wiping his salary off the books.
The most worrisome scenario however is if Ramo has a weak camp and Ortio shows he is not ready. Sure we can go with Hiller as the starter and Ramo the back-up but I think this will be the ultimate scenario that pushes BT into a trade. I still believe our weakest position right now is in the crease. We don't have that goalie who can steal you games or show that he can put forth a sustained run of top quality netminding. We have Gillies in the wings but he is at minimum 2 years away.
The Flames have to decide on when they feel their window of opportunity for being a Cup contender is. I believe they have established their core, or will have by season's end, but a lot depends on how we do this year. So the organization has to look at all positions to be sure they are comfortable on pushing for championships. I don't feel like the Flames are happy with their goaltending or comfortable in saying these are the guys we will win Cups with. That's why I feel like there is a trade to be made because I don't think the Flames want to wait two more years to see if a rookie goalie can lead them to the promise land.
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Gillies is at least a year away, maybe two. I still think you'll see Hiller gone at some point and early. Possibly before the season starts. Which leaves Ramo and Ortio as our goalies. And as I said in an earlier post, I have a sneaky suspicion that BT will try and trade for a starter should the season start out badly for the goalies.
There's no doubt our goaltending is average at best. I think our depth is very good though. They're just a few years away yet.
I just wonder what goalies would be available at the right price?
Derek Wills 
Goaltending
in Flames Talk
Posted
I thought Rams had a hell of a game last night. Couple of questionable goals but man did he come up big when he had to. I think with Hartley saying that he was going to run with Ramo for a string of games has done wonders for his confidence. He knows there's no pressure, wondering if 1 bad goal is going to send him on a one way trip to the bench or minors.