cross16
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Everything posted by cross16
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I have no interest in Bernier. I don't think his game was ever that good to begin with so I don't buy the whole he may find his game argument. I think he got overrated playing behind the Kings in the organization and is not an upgrade over Hiller. I don't think an upgrade is likely during the season because why would teams like Lightning or Wings move a goalie? Unfortunately I think the flames will have to wait until the offseason but I think they will have options it will just depends on the price. I'd push hard for bishop personally as I think the Lightning may move him to save some money.
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Crazy to me that anyone would fault Hamilton for the 5th goal as he's made a great play to create a scoring chance. When your down 4-1 the D need to activate and Hamilton did and did so in a very safe and controlled way as a forward was back. That 5th goal was a combination of so/so job on Hudler taking that man and Hiller letting in a pretty bad goal. Hamilton did nothing wrong and IMO has been he flames best dman for probably the last week or so. He was very good last night and is one of the few players I can say that about
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I didn't see the interview, but I know there is speculation that the conditioning stint was derailed becuase of Hiller's injury. It's interesting becuase he talked today about how important it is for him to play so a bit interesting he would refuse a chance to play althought I agree JTech that forcing them to put him on waivers and maybe get claimed was not a bad option from his camp either.
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They are but they still have him listed as day to day. The rumors are he needs surgery, Flames have not confirmed.
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If you look at the market you would see that these players arn't overpaid. Again, you have to look at what is the market not what YOU feel they are worth becuase that is irrelevant. Bouma is probably a bit overpaid but again you have to look at the situation. he was 2 years away from being a UFA and had 16 goals so on a 1 year deal is worth at least 1.5. so you sign him to a 1 year deal becuae you don't think he will repeat but then next offseason you have to qualify him at 1.5 anway or he walks for nothing. If he repeats it an scores between 10-15 goals again then is worth probably 2.5 or more being thta clsoe to UFA So Treliving met him in the middle and settle at just over 2 million and got 1 UFA year out of it which was necessary in order to keep Lance bouma. if you are fine with letting bouma leave for nothing then you can dispute Treliving's process on how he arrived at what to pay him, but if you like Lance Bouma and want to keep him he got a deal that was a bit too high yes, but not unreasonable again given the circumstances.
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What you would paid them does not equal what their market value is. The ones i bolded are all players that got paid according to market and in some cases less than market. Engelland isn't a fantastic deal but its not a bad one either becuaes a 5/6 dman who can step into the top 4 is going to make right around 3 or more. You tend to overpay guys on July 1 anyway. Raymond and Ramo are the only contracts that i think you scratched your head when they were signed. For Raymond the $ amount wasn't bd it was the term and for Ramo I do agree that was a head scartcher but not a big deal IMO. IMO, you need to worry about term more than you do $ and given Ramo is only a 1 year term overpaying him isn't that big a deal.
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Ramo and Raymond i will give you but the rest, no way. Hamilton - 42 point season last year at 22 year old for 5.5 on a 6 year deal is not overpaying. there were rumors he was worth 6 plus. Don't read into a slow start you have to look big picture. Engelland - Flames were one of many teams in on Englelland. he is overpaid a bit but if they didn't pay him that someone else would have so based on market you can't call him overpaid. Not to mention i would argue with how solid Englelland has played he's been worth it. not all 5/6 dman can step into a top 4 role like he did. Backlund - seriously? 3.75 is a very good value contract. Look at what centers get out there and what Backlund does. Bouma - Agree he got too much but this was a very unique contract situation with Bouma being a UFA in 2 years time. You do a 1 year deal at say 1.5 (which is where his value probably was) but then if he repeats the sason he is worth cloer to 3 being so close to UFA and if he doesn't repeat you still have to qualify him at 1.5 in order to keep him prior to UFA. So Treliving decided to buy a UFA year and to do that you have to pay more, but were are talking maybe 400K a year more than you would ideally want. Not a great contract, but necessary if you want to keep Lance Bouma around.
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Stockton Heat Updates [2016-2017]
cross16 replied to travel_dude's topic in Calgary Wranglers and Flames Prospects
Flames had 3 mill of cap room to start to the year so i don't think 950K of cap relief should enter into the discussion. ortio needs to play more than just the odd game here and there and the Heat need someone who can play for more then a couple weeks. Ortio makes far more sense to send down than HIller. EDIT: Flames now confirm that Ortio will go to Stockton -
While I don't agree that they shoulnd't have signed Ramo i do agree that this is where they mis read the market. I'm not a Hiller fan and I wasn't convinced that Ortio was ready for full time NHL duty so I liked brining back Ramo but carrying 3 of them and not dealing with it has been an embarassing situation for the team. I know people dump on the Flames for failing to develop a goalie but you have to remember how difficult it is. honestly, I bet you can go team by team in the NHL and find that just about all of them have struggled developing goalies at the NHL level becuase it is one of the most difficult things to develop especially when you have that stud like the flames have in Kipper. Its like a franchise QB in the NFL and going from 1 stud to another is so improbably that few teams can pull it off.
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Stockton Heat Updates [2016-2017]
cross16 replied to travel_dude's topic in Calgary Wranglers and Flames Prospects
Feels to me like Gilles is heading for surgery. when its quiet on an injury front like this that tends to mean its serious and they are checking opinons. Which really sucks becuase he was off to such a good start. Flames will be in big trouble down there if Ortio doens't clear waivers. If he does you are probalby ok but a real rough year for the Heat between the pipes. -
That is the right call right now. he needs to play and I don't see a scenario where he will anytiime soon, plus I personally think he will clear. If flames continues to falter and fall out of this than I think he will be back up and playing but right now you need to run with a goalie you trust and that just isn't Ortio.
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Well problem is a lot of us have watched the games and have come to the same conclusions that article did. There are times I think advanced stats creates issues that aren't there but there are times too were they corroborate what you already thought. This is one of those times.
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TD you definetly wear a tinfoil hat if you think a blogger in Edmonton A) is trying to sabotage a potential Flames trade for Hamonic or that Garth Snows opinion of Russell would be changed by some blogger in Edmonton....
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Stockton Heat Updates [2016-2017]
cross16 replied to travel_dude's topic in Calgary Wranglers and Flames Prospects
I wonder about this too. I feel like Hartley has a pretty good handle on goalies so if he doesn't trust you I ask why? This is going to sound really silly but I was watching the video of the Flames red rally on Flames TV and the highlight of the shootout. Ortio looked awful and basically looked like he didn't care at all and he even let Jacques Cloutier score on him with a less than stellar move. Its funny you mention Irving, becuase i've read the same of Irving in that he wasn't always known as a guy who practices hard and its part of the reason he was left off the Team Canada World junior team the year Mason won it. I already wondered that and then you see a practice where he is giving less than a full effort and you have to question his practice habits and that could be why Hartley just hasnt' gained any sort of trust in him. I will fully admit thats reaching and i'm not suggesting it is the root cause it was just a silly thing I noticed that reinforced something I had already been thinking about anyway. -
Thanks for posting that. The guys on the 960 mentioned it and I meant to read it last night. not a surprise at all. I'm getting more into the advanced stats but in this case I didn't need advanced stats to tell me Russell isn't a top 4 dman you can just see that in how he plays so in this case this just supports what most of us see. I agree with the article that in a 5/6 role and for 3 mill or less i'm open to Russell coming back. But this article just solidifies that if Russell wants to be a top 4 dman or wants a penny more than 3 million he has to play elsehwere. His "intangibles" he brings do not outweigh the negatives mentioned in that article.
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Stockton Heat Updates [2016-2017]
cross16 replied to travel_dude's topic in Calgary Wranglers and Flames Prospects
Fair point. I guess you need to give them the benefit of the doubt because the current set up really hasn't made alot of sense. However, I'm also to the point now where you have to question whether or not losing Ortio is even a big deal? I get it that you never want to lose any asset for free but if Hartley doesn't have any confidence in him now what is going to change in the next 8-10 months that will convince him otherwise and make it worthwhile to keep him in the organization? -
Stockton Heat Updates [2016-2017]
cross16 replied to travel_dude's topic in Calgary Wranglers and Flames Prospects
I can't see how Ortio gets claimed on waivers. I was never totally convinced he would have to start the year and given he hasn't looked good at the NHL level now I just don't see how he does and agree he makes the most sense to send down. He needs to play and I don't think there is any need to pull the plug on him as a part of the organization. NOt to mention the Heat could really use the goaltending help now that Poulin is also apparantly hurt. -
Have they really regressed though? Outside of the first week or the season i'm not so sure they have. For the last week to 10 days I personally think Ramo has played as well as he did the majority of last season. The results are different becuase they arn't getting the same support either in their own zone, or on the scoreboard like that did last season and the Flames arn't able to duplicate their comebacks like last season.
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I still think it was great compensation and I don't think he was the answer here at all. You can point to Sigalet if you want, I wont' comment as I know where little about it, but keep in mind that Francois Allaire is also considered one of if not the best goalie coaches out there. I don't think its fair to put down Sigalet when Colorado has a hall of fame netminder and one of the better goalie gurus of this generation working with their team. keep in mind, Reto Berra was sent to the AHL for a good chunk of last year becuase he was that bad at the NHL level and so far this season he is playing lights out for 8 games. Thats an extremely small sample size to say anything but he is playing well right now but not that he would have been the answer here.
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Ortio played only 6 NHL games last year. He was really good in 3, average in 1 and not very good in the other 2. Ortio might and I really stress might, be better than Ramo/Hiller but he is not the savoir nor is he the answer IMO. Yes I think he should play few more games but I just think people need to stop acting like the Flames are sitting on a gold mine that they are holding back on purpose.
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Florida game was pretty bad IMO. The first goak he needs to coral and not give up a rebound and the jagr goal was stoppable as well. Routine? Maybe not but it was one you expect your goalie to max. The puck never left the ice and wasn't exactly put in a difficult spot so I put that on Ramo. So while I agree that over the last 5 or so starts you've consistently seen a better Ramo I do agree with Kehatch that it's very tough to predict what Ramo you are going to get.
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Long term I agree with this but I don't think a top 4 dman is on its way here anytime soon. In the meantime personally I would much prefer Wideman in the top 4 than Russell.
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I just don't think the value was there. I think the problem with moving Wideman is the term versus the age and the only way they were going to move him was to make some money back in return. Once they got Hamilton i was content moving Wideman for a 2nd rounder if they could get it but I just don't think they could. To defend Wideman a bit I don't think he is playing awful this season. He looked pretty solid playing with Gio but with Russell - Englelland etc he's look pretty bad but part of that is Wideman is not a guy who will push a pairing. He needs a certain level of chemistry to hide mistakes. I've been suggesting this for a while but not really sure why Hartley hasn't rolled out: Gio - Wideman Brodie - Hamilton Russell - Englelland. Russell- Englelland might scare some peole but IMO I would be playing that top 4 around 48-50 mins a night so you don't really need Russell-Englelland that much. Russell hasn't played horrible as of yet, but I am a bit perplexed why Hartley seems to commited to getting Russell going. IMO, you need to get Wideman and Hamilton going not Russell.
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I don't agree playing Ramo tonight, or during this string of games is ridiculous, I do agree how the Flames have handled their goaltending since Day 1 is basically ridiculous. It's almost like they got over confident based on last year when they pushed all the right buttons, but forget to realize that the likelihood of that happening against was basiclaly zero. They needed to pick 2 guys in camp pick a 1-2 and give the nubmer 1 guy a few games. The fact that they carried 3 is quite frankily embarassing. I have zero problem re signing Ramo and brining 3 goalies to camp in fact I still support it. But i support it based on the idea you would pick 2 in camp which IMO should not have been this difficult.
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Not in so many words but i jsut remember the general pulse towards the end of the Kipper regime was all he did was mask problems and then someone having a great goalie was a problem and not a benefit. I don't think anyone was convinced the team was constructed properly or heading in the right direction I would argue the opposite. It was genrally believed that without Kipper during the Brent Sutter years the Flames likely would have been picking in the lottery every year instead of the 10-15 range. Maybe i'm mixing up peoples opinions becuse I know another one is "you don't need a great goalie" and thats actual one I agree with. However, just based on hoe people reacted to Kipper's last few years here it seems to be that some people would argue that a great goalie is more of a detriment then a blessing and I can't agree with that. I don't know if ridiculous is fair. Thats a really, really tough call for Hartley. This team needs wins in the worst way and he has to pick between a guy who he likes, is playing well but could be tired and a goalie who is cold and he doesn't trust (can't blame him for that either IMO) but could be fresh... Super tough call for a coach IMO. I was even really torn thinking about it and if it were me I probably would have gone Ramo too. I think he gives you the best chance to win. But, I will agree that how the Flames have handled Ortio this year is a bit ridiculous but that to me is more on Trelving then it is Hartley. Ortio should not be in the NHL he should be in the AHL playing.