cross16

To clarify I actually like Darryl Sutter quite a bit and think he is a very good coach as well as a master motivator. However, I don't think any coach/player/executive is above criticism no matter what their track record is. I don't like the way Sutter handles rookies and I said that when he was the GM, would have said it weeks ago and say it again now. His overall approach is good, for the most part, but that's an area I don't think he has it right in and it's the primary reason that although I respect him as a coach, I think he was the wrong hire. But Sutter is just a part of what is a larger problem and that is that this organization is not well set up to function at a high level. So while it makes me mad to see 2 really good young players treated like this, I am significantly more frustrated by the overall management of this organization who hired Sutter in the first place when IMO it made no sense to hire him because they should be looking to rebuild and not acting like they are close. I think Sutter is going to get this team back into the playoffs next year and I could even see them having home ice advantage. I think this club is heading to be the next Minnesota Wild a pretty middle of the road organization that claws to get in only to likely lose in the first round. I'm no longer interested in that.

1. On Treliving, as indicated elsewhere I am fine moving on just so long as they get an upgrade. If they want to go the POHO model with Mike Gillis (Davidson is off the market) I'm good with that. Otherwise I'm interest in Eric Tuslky from Carolina or Chris McFarland from Colorado and that's it. I could maybe get talked into Jeff Gorton but I'd need to see his plan and what he did in New York because outside of some obvious moves I don't see strengthens but perhaps I am missing something. I'm not really a fan of promoting Conroy unless he has a very different vision and just hasn't been able to implement it. I'll preface the rest with saying that I am assuming a rebuild is off the table. That is still the way I would go. 1. I think Peeps has all of the first steps right. The only thing I would push for is less of a term of Gaudreau deal but that is the thought process they need to go through I think and agree that this sets up the rest of the offseason. If Gaudreau doesn't want to sign (or prices himself off the Flames) then I'm very curious to see what you can get in trade. If he doesn't want to stay then it makes the thought of trading Tkachuk for Eichel harder to pull off. While i'm happy if Gaudreau wants to stay long term, i'm also not sure he's the type of player you just hand the cheque over to and let him fill it out. 2. I'm with Peeps on Eichel and that would be my offer too. I think it's a competitive offer (still not what I would do if I were Buffalo) and I do think that if you retain Gaudreau and add Eichel this team gets quite a bit better. 3. I think Valimaki and Dube are just going to get their qualifying offers. Can't see them getting raises. 4. I would re sign Josh Leivo. I think once he got past his injury he was very effective for the Flames. Should be cheap (probably another 1 year deal) RS and then he meets their expansion draft exposure requirements. I would personally have interest in Derek Ryan coming back if he can be hand for 1-2 years at less than 3 mill but I highly doubt the Flames do this. 5. Trade Monahan. I'm ok with taking a bit less in value here too I just think you need to move on. Ideally you get a RW option or another center. I'm not a huge fan of LIndholm at center, prefer him on RW, but Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk was a very good looking line. Can't pay Monahan 6 mill to be this club's 3rd best center. 6. I too would look to lock up Mangiapane on a long term deal. You might get him in the 4-5Mill range and that's a steal if you can. 7. I don't have much interest in the UFA market and I don't thikn the top end players you'd want (Landeskop,Ovechkin, Hamilton) are going to come here. I'd be open to guys lik RNH and Hyman but don't think the cap will work. Looking on more the potential bargain side: I really like Phillip Danault if they move Monahan. Brandon Saad, Corey Perry, Joel Armia, and Evan Rodrigues Hard to put a plan together until you know how the big dominos fall

What funny about this is this is the EXACT same conversation we had when Sutter was the GM. Country club, favoritism towards players like Iginla, Phaneuf etc. Phaneuf in particular was untouchable in Sutter's mind. So if you are complaining about a country club atmosphere well that starts with Sutter. See and I had no problem with how he handled JG because he challenged him but he also gave him an opportunity to prove him wrong. What I hate about how he is handling Dube and Valimaki is he is challenging them and then giving them no opportunity to prove him wrong. This is the Sutter MO he treats rookies/young players like crap but vets gets a long leash. It can work in certain cases but again it's also why the Flames were terrible at development the entire time he was the GM and why his track record of developing rookies is not strong. Maybe this works but it's a pretty dangerous game the Flames are playing IMO. No one is suggesting just hand the kids the keys, but there are better ways to develop than what Sutter is doing.

It is going to be very on brand for the Flames if the 11th seed wins the lottery.

The part that make me mad is this is exactly why the Flames were awful at development when Sutter was the GM, he puts it entirely on the player. There is little support, little room for errors and he doesn't' really help them emphasize their strengths while also working on their weaknesses and I don't' think that works. It's basically a thrive or die model and I think it's wrong and not in the best interest of the players or the organization. History is repeating itself from the way I look at it.

Nothing about this team makes sense to me right now. Why be so terse with the media to just wind up playing him? Really feels like a power struggle is coming in the Flames organization. Barely 10 years since their last one.... sigh

This is why Infuriating.....

High end company for Mang

I'm not sure it was rushed because that implies they were ready to be patient and take their time. I'm not sure that was ever the case. Bit of semantics there of course.

Guess we'll see but Rich Dhaliwal is not what I would call a quality reporter or an insider. He's put some stuff out there before, namely that Troy brouwer was about to be traded, so I'm not sure he has sources. Futa is also low hanging fruit given his history with Sutter. Easy to put that one together

The vast majority of prospects that you invest time, $ and energy in to don't make it and don't do anything to help your franchise. The Flames turned a 3rd round pick into a top prospect and then used him as a trade asset. Would you have preferred they take another player in the 3rd where they, statistically speaking, would have done the same thing and received nothing? I get it totally sucks watching Fox do what he is doing, I hate it too. I was really mad about the trade because of Fox's inclusion because I thought they had a top prospect on their hands but when you peel it back I don't think there was anything the organization could do. What I don't get though is why this keeps getting spun negatively around towards the Flames. They found a top notch dman in the 3rd round and you have another quality find from your scouting staff, which is becoming more the norm than the exception. I think it's a positive story, so the negative spin I don't get or agree with. It can be that way and still suck to see him do well and wish he was here.

I actually think DOPS got this one right. The charge combined with leaving his feet/jumping into the hit are what made it predatory IMO and worthy of the suspension. Retaliation or not, there is no need for what Bennett did.

It really doesn't. Fleury was a pending UFA who was going to walk for nothing and the Flames extracted a top prospect who ended up turning out even better than his prospect status. That's a win 10/10.

Not at all. As I've said many times the problem I see here is the Flames don't have the high end talent that teams like the Lightning, Avs, Hurricanes etc do. The "let's get faster, grittier and bigger argument" is IMO completely missing the point. And the fact that this team is missing the high end talent does not fall squarely on the GM

The Flames avg height is 13th in the league ahead of both the Avs, Lighting and Panthers. They are 12th in avg weight. Again ahead of both the Avs and Panthers. The Panthers are one of the smallest cubs in the league. https://www.eliteprospects.com/league/nhl/teams-physical-stats/2020-2021

The player the Flames received in the Theo trade wound up playing more games for the franchise than Fleury and currently #3 in games played for the Flames. I'm not sure I buy into loyalty because if anything this club has been TOO loyal, but Fleury being traded for peanuts is not a very valid argument IMO.

Oh ya, trying to determine how the NHL is going to discipline anyone is like spinning a wheel at the best of times. I think it's worth a game, maybe 2 but wouldn't be shocked to see him just fined.

Here is the hit. It's the type of one that I think happens when players get too amped up but it's a really bad hit. It's suspension worthy IMO for probably a game.

Who else? For as "disgruntled" as you think Bennett (assuming this is the player you will suggest) was he stuck around here for 7 years, never once pouted about it, and still expressed disappointment when he left. And Carolina has turned into one of the better run franchise in the league and Fox also said no to them. Sometimes players, especially ones like Fox with high end skill, have leverage and the desire to use it.

I'm not sure its as simple as that personally. They way I look at it is they never drafted a number on center during their rebuild and never drafted an elite player. I do admit that was supposed to be Bennett, but in looking back I do think that was a scouting miss on a lot of fronts. Bennett is a good player but wasn't worthy of the pre draft praise, something I know you were on early. So while there are certainly decisions in there that they deserve critique for I don't think they missed so much as they didn't time it right. But there is also no question this organization is still paying for some awful drafting pre 2015.

They had no choice. Would you prefer they had waited him out and got nothing?

They are failing at not being located in New York city?

Likely going to get a suspension I would think, which is deserved

you can add up Ritchie last 3-4 seasons and his point totals barely beat out Maroon last year. So even if Coleman isn’t a good comparison I’m not sure maroon is either. both fall under the category of not just grit and or size but actual effective play.

And I would say it’s how the flames operate at least based on comments and their drafting history.